To wonder how people can be so stupid to believe the ‘psycho ex’ BS spouted by men?

[Sunshinemorning]

so first of all- yes, sometimes women are at fault in a relationship breakdown and might have been abusive and controlling. But AIBU to think they are the small minority?

It amazes me how many men go on about psycho ex’s, but AIBU to think the people who believe them are just naive? A lot of them are new partners who seem to swallow the narrative- even when they’ve never had first hand evidence of any ‘psycho’ behaviour? Or seem to define ‘psycho behaviour’ as an ex who gets annoyed about flakiness in childcare arrangements.

Full disclosure: I’ve been labelled the ‘psycho ex’ by my ex who was abusive and controlling ( and still is - using childcare arrangements as a means of control).
He has conducted a smear campaign against me - slagging me off and calling me crazy to all his friends and family. He has also accused me of abuse. There are plenty more lies, I’m sure.

what shocks me is the people who seem to believe it. I’m ignored or treated with suspicion by his friends. ( we still live in same small town). His new partner is rude and disrespectful when speaking to me. ( only speak to her cos he has now got her doing his childcare, so she ends up involved in handovers).

Does the penny ever drop?

I'm really sorry that you've been part of that narrative and YANBU to be furious about it. I've experienced similar from the man who abused me, and it was awful. .
However...

yes, sometimes women are at fault in a relationship breakdown and might have been abusive and controlling. But AIBU to think they are the small minority?

Yes, YABVU to think that it's a small minority. It is simply not the case that women are rarely at fault. They are just as likely to be awful as men.

Physical violence in relationships is a lot more common from men (although domestic violence from women does happen more often than I think we tend to realise). But other abusive behaviours, I would say, are just as common in women as they are in men.

I'm not saying that everyone who says their ex was/is a psycho is telling the truth, but it is incredibly weird that when women have suffered an abusive relationship, we expect everyone to believe us, but when men escape an abusive relationship we're somehow allowed to sneer/disbelieve them.

These are some examples simply taken from people I know:

• My ex-SIL was so possessive over my brother that when he mentioned he'd met my sister for a drink one Saturday afternoon, ex-SIL accused him of having an affair with her. She also phoned my sister with the same accusation. She was absolutely awful to my brother, for years. Their children openly admit this and we've all witnessed it.
• My nephew's first serious girlfriend constantly made derogatory remarks about his appearance, to the point where he became paranoid and tried to take out a loan to get surgery, and also once went out all day having physically locked him into her parents' house, so he couldn't get out to go to college, because she didn't want him to talk to any girls on his course.
• My friend's ex partner physically attacked him many times, leaving his face covered in scratches, cuts and bruises. She was arrested more than once for this.
• DP's friend's wife controlled and abused him for at least a decade. At point they were living in a beautiful apartment owned by his employer while he was working in a different city for six months. They were invited to a really big family event one Saturday; she decided the day before that she didn't want to go but also didn't want him to go either. He went anyway despite the fact that she was screaming and hysterical and telling him she would kill him. When he got back she had trashed the apartment - smashed crockery, wardrobe doors kicked off hinges, bathroom mirror smashed, kitchen bin full of food leftovers, coffee grounds etc upended on to the cream carpet.
• DSis and DBIL once had to take in a friend of hers for a couple of weeks while he found somewhere else to live when he split up with his girlfriend. At first he said they'd just grown apart but then after a few days he broke down and showed my sister the messages from his girlfriend on his phone and they were horrific. Hundreds and hundreds of abusive messages, threatening him, threatening to hurt his parents. One of them was accusing him of cheating on her because he'd worn deodorant which she'd forbidden him to do unless he was spending the day with her.

@MaggieNextDoor

Some women are very naïve and don't realise that their new partner is a manipulative liar. I would be very wary of any man who talked about his ex-partner in such a derogatory manner. This woman will one day understand that it's not you that is the psycho

Same, I would also be suspicious of a man who spoke about their ex like this

I think women in abusive relationships sometimes do behave in ways that that can be described as crazy out of context. The suspicion and low self esteem for example. When outsiders go along with the script it is probably for convenience or they have no idea what an abusive relationship entails.

when the new woman goes along with it she probably also has little knowledge of DA and is also likely to be in the process of being love bombed.

Yes- had a few dates with someone who worked in the same building as me (decades ago, I was young). Who seemed like a nice guy, until we were at a bar and his ex walked in and he clapped and hid - yes hid behind me, squeaking psycho.
That was the last date.

Whilst I think a lot of women are very naive about men and don’t see the warning signs or read the subtext in their communications, I’m uncomfortable with the idea that yet more responsibility for men’s crap behaviour is being put on women.

Some women do behave badly in relationships and during the aftermath. Some women do use their kids to get back at their ex (just as some men do). I would be very wary of a man who spoke badly of his ex, especially the mother of his kids, but I don’t think you can disbelieve people out of hand or assume that the vast majority are lying.

Having your eyes open shouldn’t mean making snap judgements out of prejudice.

I believed everything my ex said about his ex wife until my own thoughts, feelings and experiences revealed the truth.
My whole outlook on men and their exes has changed dramatically and for me it would be an instant red flag if a man ever started calling his ex a psycho.

YANBU. In my experience, 9/10 the men who say that are absolutely twats who take no responsibility for their actions.

To me there's a huge difference between someone being at fault when a relationship ends and someone being a so called 'psycho' or 'crazy' ex.

There are many men out there who've been wronged by female ex partners. They don't tend to go into new relationships speaking about their ex in such intense language, with a hint of misogyny.

Any man describing their ex in that way would be a huge red flag to me, not because I think women are never at fault, but because on balance the men who speak about women in that way aren't good men.

One thing I love about Mumsnet is how often women warn fellow women about red flag behaviour (eg string of 'crazy' ex partners, children then don't provide for, children they hardly see because the mean ex has stopped it 'for no reason').

I think there is two issues - one, new partners’ naivety believing the “crazy ex” narrative and two, smear campaigns from swathes of your local community (often women) who show how judgemental/unpleasant/ignorant/pro-male-led-narratives they are. Social media has impacted this hugely, but it’s all very dispiriting.

(Speaking as one who needed police to visit ex multiple times over years to warn him to stop harassing me, neighbours as well! Ex adores identity as a hero martyr to “parental alienation”, used children, has little relationship with them which was ironically his choice!)

Ah yes, the crazy ex. Yes, I think it's people who are naive and who want very much to believe that the fairy tale has finally come to them who believe this stuff and overlook all the red flags.

My mum is married to a man with a 'crazy ex wife'. She hit the double whammy on red flag bingo though as she apparently is both 'crazy' and a 'gold digger' who took him for all his money (she didn't, though she did sensibly negotiate a very good settlement from a man who destroyed her and her children's lives by his behaviour).

Mum's partner was convicted of sexually abusing his daughter. When the ex wife found out, she left and took the daughters with her to protect them and the daughters (teens at the time of the abuse, but young adults when it went to trial) went NC with him. Apparently, the ex is 'crazy' and there's lots of talk about 'parental alienation'. But no recognition at all that sexually abusing your child is probably a pretty effective tactic for causing them to 'alienate' themselves from you. Anyway, the ex wife and the daughters are all 'crazy' and 'gold diggers' and the real reason (apparently) the daughters went NC is because they wanted money from their dad and he refused to give them as much as they wanted. Never mind the actual convictions for abusing them, but hey ho.

And guess what? After I found this out and dh and I went NC with them as a result, I'm also 'crazy' and a 'gold digger'. The story now is that I tried to steal money from them and couldn't get enough money out of them that I made up this story and cut them off from their grandchildren. So it's obviously a well worn narrative.

Quite a few people have seen through it and they've lost a lot of friends, but quite a few people believe them too, and have played along, thinking how terrible it is that they seem to surround themselves with so many awful family members who just seem out to get their riches. 🙄

My mum is a very insecure person and very much a people pleaser. I expect she is the textbook example of the sort of partner that these guys look for. Her partner actually told her on their first date about this sexual abuse convictions against his daughter and about how his 'crazy ex' was using all this against him to get his money. No doubt that was not coincidental. WHO THE HELL WOULD NOT RUN THE F OUT THAT RESTAURANT?!? The exact sort of person that a man like that is looking to snare, that's who. She saw him as a poor sod who had been taken advantage of by his ex and his daughters and just needed a good woman to lift his spirits again. That disclosure so early on was not unintentional and I think it's exactly why so many men come out with this shit from the start.

I did have an actual crazy stalker abusive addict ex. I'm not even sure I've even mentioned him to any partner since, including my dh.

You say he was abusive, he says you were. People are choosing who to believe, you’re each telling your side and hoping people you know believe you.

If a woman tells you her male ex is abusive or psycho do you assume she’s lying because only liars claim that, or do you believe her because you think only men can be bad and woman victims?

I had a few dates pre-marriage when the men referenced their psycho-ex. However much I might have liked them, that sentence would be the end of it for me. Total red flag.

I some cases it's true and in some it's not. Just as in the case that not all men are arseholes.
Generalisations are never truly appropriate in every case.

I know someone labelled a psycho ex by her ex. I've witnessed the behaviours of both. They are both psychos.

Absolutely

I've been/am both - naive and believed him about his previous crazy ex (who was visibly very difficult to a lot of people, which didn't help) and now I'm the new crazy ex...and two people in particular have believed every word he has said about me and no longer want to know me.

He is very, very plausible - sad face, weeping uncontrollably, choking with grief at what has "happened" - and I completely understand why people believe him, as it goes with his other false face, the "gentle, salt-of-the-earth would help anyone what a lovely bloke" demeanour.

It took me many years to work out who he really is, he is that good at hiding it - I think he still thinks I don't know - so however much it hurts I can't blame other people for falling for it; what hurts is that both people had known me well for years, and haven't thought to question his version of events, not so much as a text asking if I'm ok...

So whilst to some extent it's about women being set one against another, from my experience it's simply the efficiency with which an abuser presents his case...

'crazy' 'psycho' 'hysterical' 'unstable' all words used to put women 'in their place' and keep them restricted to misogynistic social norms

First they will use it about their ex and then before you know it you are the psycho.

unfortunately in the first throes of love/lust its easy to ignore this name calling especially as we want to minimise our partners' past relationships to feel that this current partnership is 'special'

AnneLovesGilbert

It's not comparable though.

Someone talking about their experience of abuse in a relationship is not the same as the "my ex is crazy, they're such a psycho" lines. There's thread after thread on here where the "my ex is crazy" script has been used.

No sex has a monopoly on poor behaviour in a relationship, but on balance domestic abuse is a male pattern behaviour. Some men are victims of female perpetrators, but that's a minority.

The risk to me listening to a woman outlining her experience with an abusive male ex is not the same level of risk to my safety as entering into a romantic relationship with a man who claims his ex was crazy and psycho.

There are enough men out there who hate their ex, have had awful break ups and had horrible experiences with their ex partners and they still don't use the "ex is crazy, she's so psycho" script. The script is a red flag for me.

It goes both ways, I personally have known women who have pleaded, been conniving, refused to hand over children etc and I've known plenty of men who have refused to pay adequate child maintenance, not seen their kids etc. neither sex are immune from controlling behaviour too. My ex mil only avoided domestic abuse charges because at the time no one thought women were capable, I've seen evidence otherwise and needless to say she never had sole charge of the kids.

I was one of these women who fell for my exes lies.. consequently he is now spouting the same bullshit about me too.

I recently sat in court with him whilst he blubbed like a baby, collapsed with emotion in such dramatic fashion. It really was quite something...

All I'll say is, they're believable.. its when the kids believable their lies that's what is hardest to deal with.

Funny enough dp has never commented on his ex yet as time has gone on things have slipped out, she was definitely a bit of an odd one. Dsd lives with us (adult so can choose). Polite men don't use derogatory language even if there's negativity!

I think we all learn from our mistakes and we learn more about other peoples behaviours from experiences. When I was younger I stupidly fell for the “ex is crazy” comments. Now I know from experience that it’s a huge red flag, I have also learnt that it’s unlikely for a woman to claim a man is abusive and it not be true, though there are times where it isn’t true but it’s not a risk I am willing to take. I have had some pretty awful relationships but I would never slag a ex off to a new partner.

Actually this is a good test for me. Men who talk about their "psycho ex", "crazy ex" or "narcisist ex" are usually just covering up their own bad expectations or behaviour. Sometimes the wife's actions are totally fabricated. On the other hand, people who talk about being abused are usually telling the truth. If a man told me that he had an abusive ex and could spell out in detail what she would do, I would believe him now, unless given strong evidence to disbelieve.

My ex does the whole psycho ex routine to me, by the way, and did it when we were together. The evidence is made up accusations of hitting him, scratching him and trying to stab him. I've never been in a physical confrontation with him all my life, although he did push me to the ground and into furniture on a few occassions. I once traced down the tiny piece of truth he'd built the stack of lies on. I was holding sauce ready to pour, he aggresively santched it off me and called me a stupid bitch because I was using the wrong pan and I said in frustartion "give it back!" and sort of lightly hit the back of my hand against his arm (he was standing next to me). It was no doubt wrong and I regretted it instantly, but it sure as hell wasn't systematic psycho abusive behaviour, and as someone said upthread perhaps makes more sense against the background of a decade of being sworn at and called names for doing small tasks wrong, like using the wrong pan to cook sauce in.

Cheer up, his current partner will at some point be promoted to the next 'crazy ex'.

Oh also, the casual way these men say it makes me disbelieve them. I am deeply ashamed of having been in an absuive relationship (this is my problem, I know really it wasn't my fault and I feel nothing but admiration and sympathy for other women who have been). But even people who don't feel ashamed in my experience treat it as a serious thing that happened to them, perhaps even a past trauma. They don't casually say "yeah ex was a right dickhead, total psycho" over cocktails.