AIBU to be upset - comment at Ru Paul’s Drag Con …

[13umpuu]

Before anyone has a moan about drag in general, please don’t, the post isn’t about that…

I’m a fan of Ru Paul’s drag race UK. I love seeing all the effort that goes into the make-up looks and I admire the creativity of the outfits. I also enjoy the behind the scenes footage of the contestants as they make friends and share their experiences.

DP got tickets to Drag Con for Xmas - an event which is a combination of shows, catwalks and meet/greet. I hadn’t asked to go and I was a bit reluctant. I’m fairly shy.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we went and it was fun. As we were leaving I spoke to one of the performers and gushingly said how amazing I thought their dance routine/song had been (the only person I’d spoken to during the event except DP)… they really are incredibly talented. Their reply seemed very heartfelt and was something like… ‘oh that’s so sweet of you, thank you’, followed by an air kiss/hug… then they said ‘get your hair done’, as if under their breath but really very much out loud, to a group of people nearby who’d seen us speak and clearly knew the comment was about me. It was greeted with much laughter.

I felt (and still feel) so upset. Partly because it was a bit of a shock but partly because I know it’s true. I’m relatively pretty but I’m just a mum, wasn’t wearing jeans/anything really scruffy and I’m not particularly polished (and my hair probably could do with being done!).

I turned away so nobody could see and promptly burst into tears. Now I can’t stop thinking about it and feel so upset.

YABU - why be upset - it’s just a stranger making some throw away remarks to have a laugh, brush it off, it’s funny (and you’ve just said it’s true!)

YANBU - I’d be upset too

That was mean. I think he/she was in character but it was still mean

It's not grammatically correct and doesn't make sense.

I think it's teenage speak for
You called out drag Queens for being misogynistic which makes you homophobic and a gay and trans hater so you are evil. Also thinking twanw means you hate sex and so are a prude.

Do I win a gold star? ✨️

The weeing bit?

What…?

That's literally what drag queens do and what you paid for. They're entertainers!

OK, I’ll bite.

Comedians don’t single out one group of people - everyone is a target. Jimmy Carr, for example, has done some really offensive material about gay men, rape, AIDS - pretty much everything.

You might find him funny. You might not. It doesn’t really matter.

The point is that he hasn’t selected one single group of individuals to punch down on - his humour, and comedians like him, targets everyone and anyone.

Drag solely targets women and punches down in a way that exacerbates our ongoing struggles within society. The sole basis for drag is “eeew women - stinky, slutty, and stupid”. It’s why stand-up comedy is deemed socially acceptable even when it’s edgy, but the black and white minstrel show and blackface is rightfully condemned. Drag is womanface. It’s problematic in the same kind of way and not even slightly comparable to stand up comedy.

Also though, no one is saying ban drag. We’re saying it’s nasty and rooted in deeply misogynistic views which affect us as women. We’re saying that we don’t want to watch it. I hope that its popularity wanes and people start to see the issues, but I’m not campaigning for it to be removed.

Look at the outcry when a comedian does a controversial joke. Social media lights up with criticism. Drag though? Nah. Totally fine. RunPaul’s Drag Race is completely acceptable as mainstream entertainment. Replace women with any other oppressed group and there would be an outcry. Imagine a bunch of white people doing black face, or a bunch of straight guys parodying gay men. It would never be allowed - there would be outrage. But women? Absolutely fine to single them out for mockery.

Interesting that you randomly and very specifically mention GC women and Ricky Gervais though as apparent proof of hypocrisy. I’m going to assume on that basis that you believe TWAW and GC women are wrong.

And you’re also defending drag and denying it’s misogynistic.

Now your opinion suddenly makes sense. You clearly have an issue with GC views so it makes perfect sense that you’d be defending drag. TWAW beliefs are rooted in misogyny and gendered stereotypes. Just like drag. Both are problematic for women.

Sorry, but drag queens act bitchy, that's their shtick. It's a piss take on women and I'm not a fan. Yes the person was exceptionally rude. But to be expected by men who mock women for a living.

Bitchy drag queen. Who'd have thought it!

I think we also have to remember that Drag Acts were normally for an all male audience. Dressed up a woman but for men’s ears only really. It isn’t for mixed audiences, this is a relatively new thing.

I tolerated being remorselessly picked on, as often I was the only woman in the audience around 20 years ago. My gay friend was a regular so I went. It was often quite personal and often about my appearance and such. I remember at the time thinking that part of it was because of having to be defensive. Being gay 20 years ago was harder than now. Also the songs, were often Judy Garland style, of loss and heartache.

It was always very adult though. Which is why I am a bit aghast that anyone thinks Drag is for kids, it really, really isn’t. Even watered down, without the bitching, at its heart it’s very sexual, in your face. It’s really, really not the Dame in a panto it’s a very different genre. I think there is a lot of middle class trendiness but that’s patronising and naive.

And it’s not for women. Is it misogynistic? I don’t know, probably. I think I ‘excused’ it when I was regularly picked on. Not sure why. And those I knew out of drag were a great bunch of guys.

This - if you'd thrown back a sassy remark you'd have been in on the joke and they probably would have laughed with you. Agree with people that this is the style of humour and probably absolutely not intended to be personal or about you at all really - they've probably thrown exactly the same line at others that evening - but it was misjudged in this case and it's awful it upset you.

@MsMe24 Calling people in the same breathe as weeing

Can you put that in English please?

And no one said anything about weeing.

I think you meant your post for another thread?

It sounds like deliberate bitchiness as part of the persona, but misjudged and done badly. I’ve seen Edna everage do similar to other chat show guests and it was hilarious but it was very gentle, warm and not so personal, with self-deprecation thrown in, and the “targets” were experienced performers themselves so could handle it. It was done so that the joke was also about the Edna character. But filter that down to an unsophisticated “be a bitch” and you just get a meaningless, nasty insult.

it’s funny how drag’s appropriation of women has now become really vicious in a lot of cases with the references to fish, periods and even abortion-based names - and there’s often an undercurrent of resentment and really wanting to hurt women. I would not have liked this at all OP.

Drag makes me very uncomfortable now and I think it’s because it’s got mixed up with the trans thing and is anti-woman and we’re supposed to see a man in drag as a “she”. Traditionally, it was for entertainment and a huge part of the jokes and schtick was that everyone including the performer knew it was a man.

Thanks for this considered response.

I think the fundamental issue will always be, there are people who are offended by Drag, and people who are not, because I do not believe it mocks women. Are there issues, particularly as its becomes more mainstream? Yes absolutely, Not everyone understands its rich history, its importance, especially in the gay community, how its an art form. When its dressed up in sequins on mainstream TV, I think alot of that can get lost.

Drag is not there to mock women, but to make a statement on gender roles, stereotypes, society expectations. Drag Queens do not dress up like that because they think thats how women look, or how they act. It explores it in a playful way and exaggerated way.

Watch documentaries such as Paris is Burning to see the significance, particularly in the LGBT community,

It's okay not to like Drag. That's fine.

What I detest on threads like these is the name calling, that somehow I must be stupid, a 'handmaiden' or a man. It's incredibly narrow-minded and rude tbh.

I do not believe it mocks women. Are there issues, particularly as its becomes more mainstream? Yes absolutely, Not everyone understands its rich history, its importance, especially in the gay community
Because it's important to men, women should shup and and accept it?

Do you not understand how gay men have been a marginalized group or why they have developed their own culture?

So because gay men are marginalised, that justifies them mocking women????

Women are marginalised, too, you don't see us mocking gay men or any other group! No marginalised group should have the right to build themselves up by tearing another marginalised group down.

NO EXCUSES.

I didnt say its just important to men. Its important to a lot of women too.

No one is telling you to shut up.

It's important to a lot of women too.
In what way?

No one is telling you to shut up.
It's the equivalent: a lot of women are offended by it and, instead of reflecting on that and taking it on board, the men carrying on punching down.

So because gay men are marginalised, that justifiesthem mocking women????

That is YOUR opinion. Not fact. Other opinions also exist, that drag can be people expressing themselves and don't see it as mocking.
Because it's important to men, women should shup and and accept it?
Nobody's telling you to shut up for crying out loud. 🙄

Culture is often used to excuse unacceptable practices. Culture is the reason that a 31 year old man has just been sold a teenage girl as a bride, culture is the reason baby boys are circumcised and girls suffer FMG, why animals are abused for entertainment and why people still excuse vile misogyny for the protection of men regardless of their sexuality. Gay men have been marginalised, but showing they can be just as cruel and hateful of women by mocking them is to meet the patriarchal standard, nothing more.

Lots of women also are fine with it and even enjoy it, and recognise it as performance. Why should your opinion trump theirs?

Women haters passing off their hatred in jest and getting away with it because they’ve got on a padded bra and six inches of foundation.

sigh

They’re meant to be bitchy, cos it’s an excuse for them. I’m not sure why you are into them?

Nasty. That would have upset me too. I like my natural look, I have no interest in spending 100s at hairdressers