Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

It should all have been sorted out far better and without messing you about leaving you waiting, but IMO if someone doesn't feel happy they can safely provide food for a customer, they should be able to decline even if the customer wants to take the risk.

Maybe the chef knew there had been more nuts than usual in the kitchen or something. I can understand the chef not wanting to take the risk.

I can understand the chef not wanting to take the risk - I think he should be allowed to say no.

Probably scared of getting sued or prosecuted.

I think they need to explain it to you and have it in writing. Refusing to serve you when you have accepted the level of risk seems OTT. If everywhere did this, he (and you) would never be able to eat out anywhere.

I'd suspect that he knew something you didn't and the chain wasn't admitting to.

Like somebody else had a reaction after eating the same 'nut free' foods and he's not prepared to have your DC be the next one to have a law named after him.

I actually think the chef was being ridiculous and demonstrates he is shit at his job. If he cannot be sure what is in things, WTF is he doing?! Not including nuts in the food is not hard.

Is the food being prepped on the premises or was it microwave reheat job? Sounds like it's the latter.

I don't know what you do for a living, but how would you feel if someone wanted you to do something you felt might harm them? If they suffer an injury or worse, you may well be legally in the clear but there's still the emotional impact on you, the hassle and worry of being investigated, the effect on your reputation…

See I do understand not wanting to be responsible for a child becoming unwell even if I had accepted any responsibility.

It just seems odd to me, at the till there is a big sign warning about allergies and not being able to guarantee being allergen free due to suppliers etc, like a disclaimer. And they ask about any allergies before taking an order, why would they ask if its a point blank nope can't serve you.

I'm now more worried about taking him anywhere that has served him in the past in case it actually isn't safe? This chef seemed to be saying basically who knows what happens to the food before it comes in his kitchen!

That's really shitty OP. However, as a former chef I can only say allergies are incredibly scary and I wonder if he was unhappy with the kitchen layout/capacity. A lot of kitchens just don't have the space or time to facilitate safe prep even if they say they do.

You'd rather the chef had taken a risk with your son's health?

You should be thanking him, not complaining, regardless of what the reason was.

I absolutely despair for society.

It does seem an extreme reaction. If you’ve checked the menus and said you were happy etc. Maybe he’s had a bad experience of someone having a severe reaction, got the blame for it and didn’t want to take the risk again or as someone else has suggested he knows that there was a greater risk because nuts had been used in the kitchen? I would submit a complaint online even if it’s just to educate the staff more.

This chef seemed to be saying basically who knows what happens to the food before it comes in his kitchen!

I'd agree with the Chef.

There's been awful tragedies of young people dying due to allergies when eating out.

He was not happy to take the chance with your child.

**

This!!!

Friends have a restaurant. One kitchen. They can't guarantee either and state so up front. They serve, vegetarian, vegan food but cannot be responsible for allergies unless there was the space for a second kitchen which there isn't.

Pretty bad experience to be ordered with drinks and settled for a while before being rejected as a customer.
Whatever that kitchen manager feels happy with he hasn't managed it well as his front of house staff weren't singing from the same hymn sheet.
Legally they have to publish their allergens in their dishes, if you're happy with those there is no reason why they should take that decision out of your hands.
Whether his attitude to the risk involved was fair or not we'll never know as we haven't seen his kitchen or met his staff or know his supply chain.

But we can say he handled it pretty badly and the experience for you was rubbish.

I don't think you'll get this very often though. Whenever I eat out with friends with allergies it's always a positive experience.

I absolutely wouldn't want to put any risk on someone doing their job, of course not. There's no need to despair for society because my 10 year old wanted a kids pizza & chips that he's eaten multiple times before without issue.
My issue was that the chef couldn't explain to me what the issue was, and I'm now more confused than ever about what is safe and what isn't.
If he had told me where the risk was, I would happily accept it and try and find somewhere that didn't have that risk. But it seemed more like it was just because he said so. When I spoke to the manager she couldn't explain why I could order it 3 weeks ago but it wasn't safe today.
Having looked through all their allergen info there actually isn't anything they serve that contains nuts so it does seem more a case of he can't guarantee his pizza didn't contact nuts in the factory. But surely that is the case if I buy a pizza from asda?

While upsetting for you and your family, I think ultimately the chef has to have the final say as he's most likely the one to get into trouble.

However, if you've eaten there before I suspect something has happened since last you were there.

Maybe the kitchen did off menu catering for an event over the last few days and it contained more nuts or nut products and he's worried of a higher cross contamination risk.

Maybe there's been a memo sent from head office which isn't clear or has been misunderstood.

Maybe there's been an incident at this or another branch so they are being extra cautious.

I'd put in a complaint as at the very least it is confusing for them to be saying one thing on their website but doing another in practise.

I don’t blame him at all. I get that it’s annoying and probably wasn’t handled very well but it’s not about you and your DS, it’s about him.

He’s not a chef who is overseeing all of the food that arrives in his kitchen and can monitor exactly what food goes near other food. He’s heating frozen stuff up in a pub chain kitchen. If he serves up a dish in good faith and your DS has a severe and fatal reaction to it, it’s him who has to deal with not only the guilt that something happened to a child because of food he prepared, and not only the loss of his career (because who wants to hire someone to cook food who has killed a child, even accidentally) but also the police and potential prison sentence. Do you think the CPS would let him off on the basis that the child’s mum had said it would be ‘fine’?

And it’s not that long ago that those two brothers (I think) were convicted of manslaughter for not being careful with ingredients resulting in the death of a young girl. Would you risk it if the situation were reversed? I wouldn’t.

As a parent of a nut allergy child (anaphylaxis and epi-pen) carrier, AND a legal person, I'm in complete agreement with the chef. It was his decision to make, and in my opinion, he took the right one.

Liability is a thing, as is personal accountability.

I'm sure your children were all fed in the end.

I wonder if he's recently had a bad experience or if a customer has recently complained about cross-contamination, so he's being extra careful.

You may say "I accept the risk" but will that really still be the case if your child ends up in hospital as a result of eating there?

One of the problems in possible contamination of the prepared food.
Lots of food for chain pubs is freezer to microwave. If the packaging says may contain nuts, the chef will not serve it. May contain is becoming standard labelling.

They are certainly taking things much more seriously now. A number of places near me won't serve anyone with a serious allergy. I guess the risk is too high.

I have an unusual allergy (I've never met anyone else with it) to raspberries. I don't normally mention it as it's pretty easy to avoid but DP did for some reason the other day.

My mushroom risotto came suitably garnished with a red flag for allergy and a green flag for vegan!

Also if your DS needs to use an epi-pen then he needs to go to hospital. This would then need to go in the pub accident book and the chef would be sacked if the packaging mentioned the may contain line. Prosecution also possible.

If it’s a chain pub it’s probably not been his decision in the first place. Likely an H&S decision from a corporate office.
Ive got a family member who owns an independent restaurant and their current premises is much larger but their old restaurant the kitchen was tiny, and he did state to everyone on booking that due to the size and layout of the kitchen they simply couldn’t guarantee cross contamination with allergens and had refused bookings before on that basis

A good friend has a restaurant and they had a strict allergy protocol. A girl went into AS due to nut allergy and it turned our she'd switched spoons with her grandad half way through the meal and that was the cause. Friend now has a no cooking for those with allergies policy as she is utterly terrified. All businesses have the right to refuse custom for any reason. It is a shame.