Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

I completely agree with you.

He didn't want to take the risk of your child becoming seriously ill. That's completely fair. The server made a mistake taking your order, and the chef came out to tell you. Disappointing and it should probably have been handled faster, but they're not unreasonable for not wanting to risk illness.

I work in hospitality management, and this makes no sense to me. If the customer is happy to go ahead, then the order should be made. You were given all the relavent allergen Info, and your child has eaten there before. I can only assume he is new in role, and panicked. The only saving grace here is that he came out and told you himself instead of making the Front of house staff do it.

When I spoke to the manager she couldn't explain why I could order it 3 weeks ago but it wasn't safe today.

Incident in those three weeks, extra training, new chief - or maybe this was first time allergy info was actually passed on correctly - or change of supplier not sure about/someone just order nut based dish before you - change in kitchen capacity someone how - could be anything.

However I don't think he was wrong - as many people say they'd take the risk but when bad things happen could immediately change their minds and blame staff.

I do think they should be have clearer much quicker with you though - so do agree that bit was annoying.

Having looked through all their allergen info there actually isn't anything they serve that contains nuts so it does seem more a case of he can't guarantee his pizza didn't contact nuts in the factory. But surely that is the case if I buy a pizza from asda?

You can't compare the two scenarios, though. If you are shopping in ASDA, the shop assistants aren't responsible for what you end up buying, whereas in a restaurant, the chef is the one who has the ultimate responsibility for what ends up on your plate (as well as the consequences of that).

They should have made their policy clear from the outset, and not kept you waiting for ages before refusing.

I'd make a complaint to the chain and query why uou could eat there 3 weeks ago but not that day

The chef's view and decision I support, just wish it could have been a lot quicker or even when you arrived.

Could be that they’ve run out of something and stocked up from cash and carry to tide them over until delivery and therefore aren’t using produce that fit the allergy guide and he simply didn’t want to risk!

on the contrary. These days chefs receive extensive training in that kind of thing. If the chef isn't warned in advance about an allergy, and knows that he can't guarantee providing an allergen free meal at no notice, the only answer he can give in that situation is "no, sorry"

Good for him for not just chancing it. And OP seems to have announced the allergy, and then not seemed to be worried if it was triggered. Weird

Yes, this is a more likely scenario. If the person who knows first-hand what the kitchen and ingredients are like doesn't want to take the risk, then I think they have the final say. I understand it would have been a bad experience for you and DS though.

I also suspect a serious incident in the restaurant since you were last there. Maybe someone with a worse allergy taken ill, if so after one incident would they risk it again?

Whatever you said and can you even take the 'I don't mind taking the risk decision', if it's not you actually taking the risk, the chef was safeguarding and it's his and your DC's risk if anything happens. If your DC had a serious reaction and the food did have a 'may contain nuts' on it the chef would not have a leg to stand on and you might not have been so happy to have taken the risk either.

Yes chef and pub should have made it clear from the offset no catering for allergies but I also don't understand how you can be relaxed about cross contamination with an allergic child.. it only takes that one time for something to go wrong.

I'm surprised. I assumed most chain pubs now were 'ping and ding' so very little 'from scratch' cooking occurs.

People always say yeah it's fine but shit hits the fan they rush to instruct a no-win-no-fee.

And if it is the weather spoon their owner is most intolerant knob.

I don't know why so many people have said you're being unreasonable!

Maybe it's because my son has an allergy too but pretty sure it's not on to refuse service to people with allergies. I've had problems with a chain pub before and I phoned their umbrella group who sorted it out. Definitely get in touch. Allergy UK can offer advice too.

The issue is liability I would guess.

I have no idea about the law and the ins and outs, but I would guess he didn’t think it was worth the risk a while you said you accepted the risk, how would that play out if the worst happened and you decided to take legal action.

I have no idea if he would be liable. But that’s probably what he is afraid of. But also who wants to be responsible for harming (or worse) a child. Or who wants their kitchen and reputation involved in it.

I think you were treated poorly in that you waited and then were told. But I think he probably didn’t want to say ‘it ok saying you accept the risk but if the worst happens it’s on me and I could lose my job and livelihood’

Maybe the chef has had a previous bad experience with people with allergies. Some people aren't prepared to take responsibility for themselves and if he can't guarantee it is nut free then better to not take the risk than to risk any repercussions.

My dad is allergic to raspberries too! (He's also the only person I’ve met with that allergy.)

but pretty sure it's not on to refuse service to people with allergies

Unless it's discriminatory, I'm pretty sure they can refuse service to whoever they like.

Which chain?

Is it a chain pub?

Theres a chain locally that have a notice up saying they’re currently declining to serve anyone with a nut or dairy allergy as they’re investigating a contamination that currently cannot be explained.

They’ve asked people to keep in mind that if they hide the allergy and have a reaction that the staff, whilst not legally responsible for their decision, will have to live with it.

They seem to be taking it very very seriously.

The thing is you are making your risk assessment without the knowledge of what is actually happening in the kitchen, he is in the kitchen and obviously has some concern. He could just be OTT and I totally get how frustrating the situation was, you should have been notified much quicker of the issue.
So is the pub now refusing to service andy and everyone that informs them of any allergy? Or specifically those that have nut allergies ? All nuts? Though I do see where he is coming from this has wider implications for his business

I’ve only got one kitchen at home but managed to serve DS nut free meals for 26 years without contamination. People with nut allergies generally order plain food. My DS will usually order steak and chips or something similar with no coating. All they have to do is give the utensils an extra wash. A steak does not contain nuts. It can be done if they’re willing to ever so slightly inconvenience themselves. All commercial kitchens should have robust procedures to minimise the risks of contamination. It’s discriminatory for them to say they just can’t be bothered.