Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

I worked during the summer at a petting farm and whilst we had all allergens listed, if anyone said to us that someone had a allergy we would advise them that the products were not prepared on the premises - all bought in - and that we could not guarantee anything was actually "free from " other then the bought in sealed packs of gluten free muffins , as everything else was prepared in places where cross contamination could be an issue and advise them that on future visits to bring their own food

Where I work now we do cater for most allergies, but again we cant guarantee there is no cross contamination. The combo grill where most dishes are finished for example is also the toaster. Someone asking for their gluten free bread toasted is told no can do as to toast bread it sits directly on the racks

I think the chef was covering his back and in todays world of litigation I dont blame him

as a retired restaurant owner (not a chain) and trained chef, I totally get where the chef was coming from. If it was a chain , chances are that they order in most of their food already prepped such as breaded fish, chicken strips, appys like breaded mozza sticks and so on. All these boxes say "may contain traces of nuts" The chef does not know your child, but knows their job. As soon as the waitstaff hit the allergy alert on the computer, it goes on the chit in the kitchen. It is now the head chef of that shifts responsibility to keep your child safe. So fries may not have an issue as long as they are just fresh cut from potatoes..but what about the table before than had breaded chicken in that fryer that stated "may contain" Those fries also now MAY contain traces. It sucks. I really know it does. I am sorry that your child was upset.

My worst experience as a chef was with a customer with a severely disabled son. Wheelchair and could only eat pureed food. I only had drink blenders and they were not strong enough to blend a steak , veg and potatoes. First time they were very understanding and ordered the boy (he was about 10) mash potatoes and gravy and some soup. All good. My server took him an icecream after as the kids meals all came with it and they could not order off that menu. We also took the price of his food down and just charged for the kids meal which also included a beverage and the icecream .

second time they came, I got a horrible review. WHY? because they brought their own highpowered blender for me to use. It was filthy and also not restaurant grade. Had we used it and he got sick from the filth (yes it was so gross that the blades were rusted, a spin thru our commercial dishwasher would not have taken that rust off the blades) We would have had the health department all over us.

It sucks but in these days of litigation, The chef just has to protect himself and the crew. Chef has final say.

again so very sorry about your son's upset.

It's his risk (as well as your son's) therefore his decision to make, he's the one facing the concequences if the food he serves triggers your son's allergy, and even if you sign a disclaimer, if he knows there was a risk of the food being contaminated, then he's still liable.

Why can't you have a bit of respect for his professional decision that he cannot at that time, guarantee that the food coming out of the kitchen is safe for a nut allergy sufferer?

I had to refuse to serve someone chips once, they went to great pains to tell me of their gluten allergy and when I regretted that although the sandwich could be, the gluten free fryer was temporarily out of action so the chips weren't (and offered alternatives) I got a total dressing down about how people know their own allergies and bodies, and she would be fine with that bit of gluten, but, none of that changed the fact that she told me she had to be gf and I knew the chips would be contaminated and as such could very well be held responsible if I served them to her, even with a warning or disclaimer.

All this thread demonstrates to me is that you cannot do right for doing wrong in hospitality, take allergies seriously up to and including refusing service if you cannot guarantee the safety of the allergy sufferer then you're being unreasonable and an idiot, stupid etc, don't take them quite so seriously and take a risk with other
people's health and it's well, illegal for one.

I get that it's frustrating and inconvenient, but refusal of service isn't life/health threatening for the allergy sufferer and career threatening for the people serving.

But this is a nonsense. Do you think they can guarantee something is free of milk or egg traces (much more common ingredients) but not nuts? It's a policy that demonstrates the people who made it don't know what they're talking about.

It was very clear to everyone else that the poster saying "nut allergies are not special" simply meant "relative to other allergies". Contrary to popular belief, they are not inherently more dangerous than other allergies: all types of allergy can range from uncomfortable to lethal.

I'm pretty sure that no one on this thread is under the impression that life-threatening nut or other allergies are made up for attention.

Is nuts the only fatal allergy?

I'm surprised at this given it was a chain pub and most of the food will be out of a sachet anyway

But most sachet/packet foods will have a disclaimer saying "may contain nuts" or "was manufactured in factory which uses nuts".

They may not be cooking with actual nuts but that doesn't mean the risk isn't there.

Absolutely not.

No.

Would you really be grateful? Because if every chef took this attitude then that would mean you or your child could never eat out again. I doubt anyone would be grateful for that.

Anybody dealing with serious nut allergies have my sympathy.
I recently threw a ticketed kids party for the local village hall and honestly my head was in a spin with it all.
After special requests from parents, we had to consider vegans, nut allergies, seafood allergies and people with gluten intolerance. And when you're trying to stick to a budget, it's hard to cater cheaply and easily for everyone. Gone are the days when you could make trays of cheese, ham and jam butties. Multipacks of crisps, cucumber sticks, sausage rolls and some fairy cakes!
So, the chef should try to be more inclusive, but I have to say I don't envy anybody in catering these days!

Buck stops with the chef. Tell chef you have an allergy and if chef isn't 100% confident they have the right not to kill you.

If you don't want them to take your allergy into account don't tell them about your allergy

I find it baffling that someone would even consider eating out when there is a child with a nut allergy. Having to use an epi pen is scary and always results in a trip to hospital. If, like you say, "his allergy is not that bad" and you had already researched the allergens on the menu, why mention it to the waiting staff? Munchausen by proxy springs to mind.

It's like a pilot landing a plane, the final decision on the landing is with them.

There might have been a recent incident that made him more hesitant,.or it's a new chef who's just more careful.
I don't think he's in the wrong but it could have been handled better.

Thank you.

@B0G0F as I explained (but perhaps you didn't see my follow up post), there is nothing inherently more severe about nut allergies compared to others. In fact, they are an ingredient that can be easily avoided. Allergies to other foodstuffs (any foodstuff, but commonly egg and milk) can be just as if not more severe and far more difficult to live with because the allergen is so commonplace and the severity of the allergy underestimated.

Likewise, not all nut or peanut allergies are anaphylactic.

Having worked in kitchens and also having a DH with serious allergies, this is very weird. That leads me to think there’s more to this than meets the eye - either the kitchen had in some way been rendered less safe than usual (by say an event where nuts were recently prepped there, or the chef/the company have had a recent ‘incident’ with allergens and are therefore operating a zero tolerance on allergies thing). Annoying - but not much you can do other than complain to head office, which I would do in these circs to find out what happened, and if you can eat at this place again.

In fairness it sounds like your child’s nut allergy is very unusual- almost any severe nut allergy is usually a cross-contamination risk.

OP "Having looked through all their allergen info there actually isn't anything they serve that contains nuts so it does seem more a case of he can't guarantee his pizza didn't contact nuts in the factory. But surely that is the case if I buy a pizza from asda?"

The nature of supply chains means that is mostly the case.

I understand why the chef didn't want to explain further. Basically there are no guarantees from his perspective, and no one wants to make someone ill. It doesn't matter where along the chain the potential might be.

That sign at the till saying "no guarantees" - probably people have complained in spite of the sign.

I’m really sorry you had this experience. While I completely sympathise with the chef who felt he couldn’t guarantee your son’s safety and clearly there was a breakdown in communication and they should not have let you order and pay. You must have felt really frustrated (not to mention hungry children by the end of the saga). I have the same
allergy and this used to be a huge problem
for me but things have got so much better in the last few years.
I am very careful where I eat and what I order and like you I am ok with the risk of contamination in a kitchen and in food that is “bought in” and May contain nuts. My allergy would be ok with traces. I find most places really now good about understanding that difference and a proper conversation either with the manager or the chef sorts out the risk and whether I am happy to proceed. Some chains are really good now eg cote, Wagamama, the Ivy etc just get it that I am
allergic but I am
happy to take a certain amount of risk and that I accept there may be traces which is fine as long as I know there are no nuts in the actual ingredients. I think you had bad luck but would in future ask up front to check with the chef/kitchen if they can cater for no nuts but stress that traces are fine. Best of luck.

I did work a summer as a waitress and had someone wanting a gluten free hash browns - I went into the back and found the catering boxes - nothing had ingredients on - and I called in others more experienced staff to search.

Nothing - my immediate boss was all for telling them it was fine - I told them what I found so had no clue what was in them.

They got very nasty about that saying they had to have ingredient list somewhere- but then at least massive boxes of catering hash browns no ingredients at all. So they declined to order them and left some very nasty comments on leaving. I'd hope that's improved since as allergies have gotten media attention.

Still if they had a box/packet saying may contain nuts and a busy restaurant so not time to search further or look up company protocols probably not worth taking any risks.

They should have told you sooner - and it may be worth complaining to head office so they can make sure everyone knows their policies.

Another parent of DC with (tree)nut allergy.
In the past year we have had to sign a disclaimer three times to accept the premises would endeavour to avoid contamination but could not guarantee to be 'free from'. This has never happened to me in the UK til now, although it has in the States.
I am also aware of two high end restaurants in the UK who have changed their guidelines to say they are unable to serve those with nut allergies.

My friend who nearly died from her nut allergy would start reacting if someone walked into the room who'd eaten nuts earlier in the day. I remember one time out with her and she suddenly stopped, grabbed her EpiPen and said to us "someone's come in with nuts."*
The person was still 5 yards away from us, had eaten a small bag of nuts 2-3 hours previously, had washed their hands, and had a drink since.
I don't think any other allergies are that sensitive.

*I suspect you're ready to say that she was overreacting. I'll just say the paramedics that came to treat her didn't think so. She had 2 days in hospital.

I'm an adult with a severe nut allergy and carry two epipens. I've been politely declined service on several occasions.

It can't always be helped, 'may contain' is too much of a litigation risk.

OP you can make a risk assessment in your own home or when shopping but in a professional setting it's up to the chef.

I've been in hospital and they've refused me any food 'just in case', that was very difficult.b

Don't be ridiculous. My child with epipens for a peanut allergy eats out all the time.

She needs to understand how to safely manage her allergy, because when she's older I won't be there to do it for her. Refusing to let her eat out ever in her entire life (nut allergies are usually lifelong) would only make me more worried about teenage rebellion and poor decision making.