Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

I suspect this chef has had an issue in the past that has scared him basically. They are not cooking from scratch so he has no control over the process. It scares me every time we have someone with allergies come to the warm space project I run - for coeliacs I have commercially produced canned soup with the gf and vegan symbols on them, plus sealed gf crackers. For other allergies it's tricker eg celery as it's in stock cubes - this is soup given free to those who need a warm meal so not a commercial kitchen. I would be devastated if I made someone ill so I would prefer to state I cannot guarantee free from unless it's commercially produced

But I can eat almonds.

Not everyone with a nut allergy is allergic to every single tree nut.

Though the custard and cream would leave me very ill for up to two days but wouldn't kill me.

If restaurants are going to be held legally liable if a customer dies from an allergic reaction to their food, it's not surprising they will refuse to take on that risk, and so refuse to serve people with allergies if they can't 100% guarantee the food is allergen free.

I assume there has been a very recent incident or some kind of contamination from a supplier that means they can't take any risks currently. Not great it wasn't communicated on arrival and I would complain about that but I wouldn't blame the chef or assume incompetent as he obviously made a decision that whatever had gone on in the background was too risky. I'd be grateful he noticed.

Yep, I find those with allergies are so used to risk assessing that others think we’re being casual or playing fast and loose. We’re not, we just know whether day to day sensible precautions are enough.

@Reugny , and your point is?
My friend is allergic to nuts and peanuts.

If people say things like 'nut allergies are nothing special' then it's belittling to people who are allergic.

I have an allergy but it's one that's easy to avoid. I'd probably be very ill if I ingested the allergen but probably not die. Telling people has no effect whatsoever. They don't grasp that I am saying it for a reason.

Thank you! Some people here seem to think children with food allergies shouldn't be out at all, it seems. Which is a fine attitude if you know nothing about them and are lucky enough not to have to live with it!

There isn’t much you can do about it tbh and people with allergies have zero sympathy, are expected to never go anywhere or do anything and tough you just have to deal with it.

I wish late onset anaphylaxis to a common food on all the people who think like that. I am sure if that were to happen they will happily spend the rest of their lives never eating out.

In all honesty though OP I wouldn’t want a chef like that cooking for my DS anyway as god knows what the kitchen is like. They are not supposed to have undeclared allergens on site so if the menu has no nuts on it then why are they refusing? Something is amiss and I would avoid.

I'm with the chef.
His options seemed to have been not serving your son or risk going to prison.
He won't be doing it because he can't be arsed.
Also if it's a chain then he will of been told not to serve him.

The chef will have had their reasons. Could be all the nut-free area is a state and closed for cleaning. They could have had a massive spillage of peanut butter. Who knows why. But there will be something. They've done you a favour they aren't saying no for the sake of it.

Exactly, I almost never have Thai or Indian food but if I do I’ll let them know because they quite often use nut oil in recipes, but everywhere else I take the view that nuts are an expensive ingredient so if they’re in a dish it will be on the menu, they’re not likely to add them to anything to bulk it out. I would never eat a cereal bar, granola or fruit cake.

Pretty much the only thing I’ve ever seen that was guaranteed nut free was my Kinerton advent calendar.

I'm now more worried about taking him anywhere that has served him in the past in case it actually isn't safe? This chef seemed to be saying basically who knows what happens to the food before it comes in his kitchen!

As a coeliac, this is why I don’t eat out. But to be fair, most. Gluten free menus are “NGCI” (non gluten containing ingredients) and they all seem to have the disclaimer now that they can’t guarantee cross contamination. It’s not worth it for me.

I think most people are going to keep missing your actual point, OP.

The restaurant management are at fault here for unclear policies. If you do complain (and I think you should), then I would be clear in the complaint that you do not blame the chef but you blame the restaurant management for not giving staff clear guidance and policies

I'm going with this.

If a significant quantity needed to be eaten before a reaction ie cross contamination was not an issue. I'd probably not mention it to the restaurant in future and take a lot of care in what I'd ordered.

In fact that's what I did with a one type of fruit allergy I developed - just avoid it and anything it "might" be hiding in.

The chef hasn't necessarily done anything wrong but the manager and chain management have.

There's no excuse for it taking an hour to be told that they refuse to serve you. There's no excuse for having a sign up saying "known allergens are labelled but we can't guarantee no cross contamination etc etc" when what they mean is "we cannot serve food to anyone with potentially anaphylactic allergies, we will ask you to confirm that none of your party has such allergies before taking your food order".

I suspect that the rather depressing way forward may be for Brake Bros to set up specific allergen-free kitchens producing their normal style of sous-vide meals to be distributed to restaurant chains and reheated in sealed packaging, opened with disposable scissors and served on disposable plates with disposable cutlery. Much as cafes tend to provide gluten free biscuits and cakes in sealed packages.

Does she make everyone with an allergy sit and wait for an hour before not serving them?

As a coeliac, this is why I don’t eat out. But to be fair, most. Gluten free menus are “NGCI” (non gluten containing ingredients) and they all seem to have the disclaimer now that they can’t guarantee cross contamination. It’s not worth it for me.

Yes, I've been refused service after telling them I'm coeliac not just avoiding gluten. I always wonder what sort of dodgy practices are going on that they can't guarantee no cross contamination. Most of it is just regular food hygiene practices. Imagine if they said they couldn't guarantee raw chicken hadn't touched something else?

and those ping n ding foodstuffs can be made in a factory that uses nuts (pick your allergen) in some foods. There will almost certainly be a "may contain nuts" label on it. The chef was right. It's his livelihood and him going to prison if what he serves makes a child sick, or the child dies.

I wouldn't want to take that chance for a low paid job like this.
Why it took an hour, I'm going to guess, busy place? He called someone about it to see if the food may contain nuts? He knew an event yesterday had masses of nuts, wanted to check with yesterday's chef? Who knows. I'd prefer he didnt take the risk with peoples lives. I wouldn't complain, I might ask why.

I'm surprised at this given it was a chain pub and most of the food will be out of a sachet anyway. One would imagine the chin to have a policy; I would contact head office.

I wouldn't be so surprised in an independent establishment. DD worked in an owner-run coffee shop / cafe and they were told to turn anyway anyone with a nut or gluten allergy as the risks of cross contamination from on-premises food prep is too high.

I went to a well known chain recently with a family member with a dairy intolerance, they usually choose vegan food on the menu to be safe. They were asked at the door if they had an intolerance or allergy and on saying yes were given an ipad on which to put in their intolerance; they would then be able to see what was on the menu that they could order, and told that nothing not on that reduced menu could be provided.

He thought great idea, and did this. The ipad then removed all food items on the menu, including all the vegan options as 'possible cross contamination'. He had to sit with the family and have a bottled drink; the restaurant refused to serve him any food at all.

We obvs won't go there again, and he's now learned not to say yes when asked in a restaurant 'any allergies or intolerances' and to quietly make his own decisions based on the menu. It's an example of something that looks inclusive actually being used to exclude and to avoid the issues that come with people with additional needs.

It will be something like this. The chef will have been told. They won't be able to tell the customers exactly what has happened. Eg. A boy died last week, possibly contamination in the lasagne or the ice cream. It will be silenced until investigated.

Pub kitchens have loads of protocol in place (eg different chopping boards and separate stoves) to stop cross contamination of anything inc allergens.

If one of the cooks buggers it up
on the day (eg uses the shellfish board to chop carrots) the chef is dead right to boot you out.

I’d be grateful.

A lot of places round us say they'll serve most allergies, but not nut allergy because they can't guarantee that there won't be traces.
As a friend nearly died from nut traces I don't blame them.
Surely it's better them being honest and saying they can't guarantee it, than them happily saying that it's no problem and you ending up with a dead child?

1/3 of the UK population are living with a diagnosed food allergy? Have I got that right?