To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

It all sounds mental. I’m so glad I’m not in the UK.

Only read the first page, but can anyone tell me why the kids don't enter the school, go to their pegs, hang up their coats & satchels & take their books, etc to the classroom? Are there no rooms full of pegs any more?

There have been a few explanations.

• can't hide phones/weapons
• can't skulk behind hoods and disengage from lessons
• can't choke fellow students by grabbing their hoods

Maybe get her one of those down jackets that squash into a little bag? The Uniqlo ones are reasonably cheap.

Lots of posters have explained this already.
It's because kids hide things in coats or put their hoods up to avoid identification or have phone in coat pocket and then start playing on it.

Ultra prescriptive uniform rules with draconian punishments for noncompliance makes it easy to exclude students which the school has labelled as 'disruptive'.

Sounds fine(ish) except that those students may be dealing with low level or undiagnosed ND, difficult and chaotic home lives.

But the majority of these children will be neither and will just be chaotic, disruptive kids

You get a WhatsApp from your son in Y7. During class changeover, he was shoved in the corridor by an older pupil showing off in front of his friends. Your son fell over in front of everybody. His knees hurt but worse is that kids around him laughed and he’s humiliated, so he starts welling up. The older boy laughs and tells him, “grow up, you childish prick.” By the time the nearest teacher can wade through the crowd, the older boys have moved on.

You’re annoyed, rightly so. You call the school to complain. Within a couple of hours, your son’s Head of Year calls back. He shuffles his feet in their tanned shoes. Tweaks his navy sleeves.

“I’m sorry, but we can’t identify the boy in question. He’s on CCTV but his hood is up so his face is obscured. He’s wearing a black puffa coat, but to be honest they’re nearly all wearing them.”

of course there is such a thing as a "petty" or "silly" rule.

Making girls wear stupid "girl" shoes instead of robust shoes that can cope with winter weather is actually pathetic and stupid. I want to see all women teachers have to do that too. Including the head.

If boys have to wear shorts, i want male teachers in shorts. Taking their coats off at the entrance etc etc. I would like to hear the reason why a tie being to short/long gets a detention.

And if it's all about gang affiliation rather than a tiny personalisation of clothing or tiny protest - then the school has bigger issues.

There are rules, and then there is petty control freakery. And as with the military, leaders should set the example.

My son's school blazer has five pockets in it, two are zipped ones on the inside. If he wanted to hide a phone, a vape or anything else, he'd stash it in there, surely? Next I expect the blazers will be designed without pockets!

You undercook fish? Jail
You overcook chicken? Jail

Me and DS have this exchange every time we cook 😂

The only state school available to DS is massive >2000 and has rules exactly like this. They are necessary due to the nature of the student population and I don’t envy the teachers, however I pay for him to avoid the same torture I had to endure when I was at my shitty massive comp

then install metal detectors like US ones.

So i finally understand the coat thing. The shoe and the tie thing? batshit

The thing is, schools need rules, and children will always push back against them.

The argument for the zero tolerance approach is that it is better to sweat the small stuff than to have the arguments about the big stuff. It's better to be arguing about uniform rules than to have teachers trying to clamp down on rudeness, refusal to follow instructions, or chair throwing.

I worked in a specialist behaviour unit and was shocked at first that the head insisted on shirts being tucked in at all times. It seemed so petty given the kind of behaviours we were dealing with. He argued that it gave them a way they could succeed, if they wanted to, and was a firm and visual message about who was in charge.

And if you think teachers needing to be in charge is just a power trip, try sending your kids to a school where the teachers have lost control and see how safe they are and how much they learn then.

Shoes and ties are part of the uniform and uniform helps with cohesion and creating pride in the school community. Basic tribalism.

If it stops my child being stabbed in the middle of a lesson then I'm all for it. I don't get your point. Rules designed to make it harder for children to hurt others and more likely to be able to learn are useful.

We can't afford paper and pencils. How can we install metal detectors?

My DD's school has a reputation for being strict and very good behaviour. However, the vast majority of the rules are pretty basic and common sense (no chewing gum, bring your planner in everyday.) The punishments are proportionate - detentions only given for more serious infringements/repeated issues. They wear a basic school uniform skirt/trousers, blouse and jumper (no tie or blazer like all the other schools have now.) And they look the smartest. They can remove their jumpers if they're hot. They also achieve academically above some of the Grammars. The worst behaviour/worst reputation schools are all the ones with the ridiculous rules. All the schools are academies (including Dd's) as we don't have any non-academy secondary schools and only an odd few primaries that aren't academies. So ime, the more ridiculous the rules/uniform etc. the worst the school.

The only 2 rules at Dd's school that have mildly irritated me are she had a pair of black patent boots from Matalan when she started the school, but they weren't allowed - I had to buy a pair of £70 Kickers ones! They also have the rule of not wearing coats inside which I think would be fine if they had a peg or locker to put them in. But as the school has expanded this has been one of the casualties. I just think it's easier to wear your coat and then take it off when you get into class than having to carry it along with your rucksack/lunch bag etc. At least they don't have the ridiculous rule of having to put it in your bag - as how is that possible when it is full of books and equipment!

make the reason why girls (according to all the MN posts i read about school shoes) don't get to wear sensible winter footwear.

Make the length of a tie (or even a tie at all) make sense.

Believe me, i know how uniforms work. Boarding school followed by the army made that very clear. Batshit rules forching children to wear inappropriate foot or outerwear are rules for rules sake.

Children need boundaries to thrive. They need to know where, when they push, the breaking point is. Letting them get their own way 100% of the time and only doing what they want does them zero favours.

As parents we all are operating on memories of hating it as teenagers but really it helped us function well within society. The families with generational issues are those without boundaries, those that dismiss school and any authority figures as "little Hitler's".

But you can get closed shoes for girls.

There are no pegs . There is no space for this or lockers in many schools

again: boundaries are fine. Forcing girls into skirts and inappropriate footwear in winter isn't a boundary. It is a control (freak) issue

A uniform is a uniform. The school can encourage the students who don't agree with it to do what us adults do when we don't agree with a policy - put an argument together and protest for change.

There was a fascinating article published a few years ago which looked at Head Teacher 'styles': authoritative, consultative etc.

What was found was that, when you looked over a period of a few years the authoritative Head Teacher were the least effective. Initially they would improve results. This would be achieved by excluding disruptive pupils through the application of extremely strict rules. However, over time, these schools would decline as the ultra strict atmosphere would alienate good teachers and students and their families.

Interestingly, the vast majority of these Head Teachers were found have a similar background: PE.

The most effective Head Teachers were found largely to be History graduates.

The authoritative Head Teachers tended to move on quickly and command the highest salaries.

Can you link to this or say where it came from? Would like to read it!

I don't envy teachers. I think they are trying to make school a better place, but the stress on some children is enormous.

In my DD's school, they've installed vape detectors in the bathrooms. If it goes off, anyone using the toilets at the time is Hubbed until all students are searched and they identify the culprit. For children who are anxious that's a horrible thing to try to cope with.