To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

I don't get the coat thing but they should be made to take their rucksacks off their backs, before entering the building.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've been hit in the face by them on a bus or in a small shop, when school kids are oblivious to the people behind them.

Academy

Coat thing daft

One way system sensible especially when school has had such massive growth in a relatively short time. This isn't anything new really. I had this at my school in the late 70s although appreciate its new to that school.Ig just wasn't needed when the school was new with fewer pupils.

This sounds like my school in the 90s. A teacher used to remove hair bands if they weren't school colours as you walked past in the hall way. Black, white or navy blue were not school colours but common colours for hair ties

Sounds like my dd high school, she is in year 7 and it is affecting her mental health.

Parents was well controlled, strict schools with good outcomes but struggle with the rules that comes with that.
One school near me is exactly the same as you describe but has a long waiting list as parents prefer it to the alternatives where there isn’t the same control and as a consequence more trouble.
The problem is that the sensitive children who follow all the rules but fret about the environment suffer.
I don’t know what the answer is.

I went to a big secondary in the 80s and we had a one-way system then, due to safety I expect. The fun was getting to the door before the teachers or prefects spotted you and circumnavigating it!
I do agree though that schools these days can be very punitive, the cost thing in your case is ridiculous, plus there’s no cloakroom so you end up shoving it in locker then going back to it at end of day.

The secondary school I work in isn’t like this (I think, to be honest because we are a) very small and b) not part of a MAT so we can run ourselves) but I think probably every other school in my locality has aspects of what you describe, OP. I think it’s a combination of factors, behaviour is worse that it’s ever been and funding and recruitment has never been as bad and more SEND than ever so you have to make adjustments where you can. Let me give you an example, autistic student gets overwhelmed in busy corridors. 20 years ago I’d see a TA working with said student who would guide student down the corridors, take time with them, get them
used to it so they could stay with their peers at lesson changeovers and would be a person in that corridor to chat to the kids, keep things safe and pleasant. Nowadays it’s likely that school has merged with another and has twice the number of pupils but school buildings haven’t been upgraded cos there’s been no investment in them so the corridors aren’t big enough for the number of kids now anyway. You don’t have the luxury of a TA and can’t risk SEND student going into meltdown and us not meeting their requirements for support and so a zero cost win is keep the corridors as controlled as possible for everyone and have SLT in corridors with radios to maintain order (Michaela school in London has silent corridors). Add into that that recruitment is a shit show so, if you can market yourself as a school with very few behaviour issues for staff to deal with because your behaviour polices are zero tolerance then you’re more likely to get good teachers wanting to work for you because they can just get on and teach and not deal
with disruption.
The navy suit and tan shoes is a stereotype of a member of the senior leadership team who has been promoted above their capabilities. I’m remaining quiet as to whether that’s a real thing or not!

So essentially you were physically assaulted really. The coat and one way system was the same. Coats were confiscated if not school colours which caused an outboard with parents.

I don't think it affected mental health because we were all in it together. When one child is singled out repeatedly, it affected self esteem a lot and potentially mental health

My secondary (1980s) had a head who tried to bring in the no coats thing. The problem was it was a large campus with several buildings and you had to go outside to get to and from lessons - and she would tell people off if they were wearing coats OUTSIDE.
We had no lockers or anything so had to carry the ruddy things all the time.
She only lasted a year and a couple of years after she left uniform was scrapped for 4th Years up (aka Year 10).
It wasn't the greatest school in the world but was considered the better one out of the towns 3 secondary schools.
It's an Academy now. Fancy uniforms and all that. Locals hate it. It's one of the worst schools in England apparently 🙄

Omg...yes!!!!

Buy son a couple of light weight woollen vests/spencers from an outdoor hiking shop.

Has it recently become an academy.?
How many years is it t since your daughter attended?
From what I have noted from schools local to me is that If they get a bad ofsted , the first thing they do to try and improve things is bring In a strict uniform policy .

Ours is the same.

Detentions now are meaningless, given for the most ridiculous reasons mostly not even behaviour related. I've gone past caring if DD gets one as it's always for something daft. It's turned in to a 3 classrooms social.

Detention was a huge thing in my day, usually followed by a walloping from your mum when you got home.

Re the blue suit/tan shoes. I recently worked in a school and a member of SLT sprung to mind immediately! I didn’t know it was a ‘thing’.

A scary sign of the times. I do wonder if there is a correlation between army-style rules and higher academic performance? Most likely, not. Is there an improvement in bullying stats, safeguarding? Again, probably not. This is all about controlling kids who are learning under a broken system.

The education system is messed up and all we can do is our best at home for our children. Don't rely on schools to educate your children anymore. Sounds shocking and out there but I will remove my children from mainstream school in a heartbeat and eat the cost of any tutoring/extra curricular/home education as we are being left with so little choice. We are 2 years away from eldest in secondary and have no financial option of private schooling. Unless parents really start to kick up a stink, it will only get worse.

However, the one way system is a no brainer to me. Defo needed with so many students

Our school is the same. My child has gone from never having any issues at primary and in year 7 to spending years 8 and 9 being pulled up for so many absolutely ridiculous things that it's lost all meaning and she couldn't really give a shit about what they're saying now.

Blowing up on all of the inconsequential shit like walking in single file and how straight a tie is makes a mockery of the whole thing. Detentions over socks make detentions over actual poor behaviour mean absolutely fuck all.

Grown adults writing seriously toned emails about "so and so has had three warnings about wearing their tie in the correct manner (straight, and it's a clip on..) and we will be forced to pursue this if they don't address this behaviour.

This hierarchical bullshit won't turn out well, and it's producing kids with complete contempt for the system.

What is the reasoning for having to remove coats before entering ?

I am assuming as they are not part of the uniform?

I'm not in UK and our schools are just as strict uniform wise. But here, they can take their blazers off in class, but as soon as they leave to change class, go on break, the blazers have to be put back on. All ok if it's blazer wearing weather, but not so much if it's 35+ degrees outside.

I will never understand that rule. They are in the premises, sure when leaving for the day have it on, but on and off all day. My ds used to call it wax on, wax off....

Yes! 🙌🏼

If the school is not warm enough or queueing means they cannot access warmth easily enough, then report to the HSE.

The walkway thing I don't think there is much to do anything about.

There are people usually rich people who use the possibility of legal action to get others to back down, change behaviour or stay silent (legal bullying is not a term but I consider it that). I wonder if getting a solicitor to write a letter that hints of legal action if there is not a process that enables children to keep warm would bring results. For example, coat off within two minutes of entering the building, not immediately or if outside.

HugoDarracott · Today 11:19

Absolutely standard practice these days. I bet the senior staff are all ex PE teachers wearing navy suits and tan shoes.

Absolutely recognise this!!! Throw in one or two young ex maths teachers too who can crunch the numbers and it's SLT bingo!

Why is wearing a coat ever taking the piss?

There was a fascinating article published a few years ago which looked at Head Teacher 'styles': authoritative, consultative etc.

What was found was that, when you looked over a period of a few years the authoritative Head Teacher were the least effective. Initially they would improve results. This would be achieved by excluding disruptive pupils through the application of extremely strict rules. However, over time, these schools would decline as the ultra strict atmosphere would alienate good teachers and students and their families.

Interestingly, the vast majority of these Head Teachers were found have a similar background: PE.

The most effective Head Teachers were found largely to be History graduates.

The authoritative Head Teachers tended to move on quickly and command the highest salaries.

Putting the coat in the bag sounds ridiculous! Who's going to have room for a winter coat in their rucksack if it also has their books and equipment, maybe lunch etc.

This in a nutshell.