To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

This is how private and grammar schools work so I see it as a trying to improve standards to mimic their results.

the one way system sounds fine if a school was built for 750 and now has double that quantity.
But yet again: your English (British?) school uniform rules and pettyness are absolutely batshit

As I said above I have daily emails from private school about uniform. Complaints about the girls acrylic nails, false eye lashes, their shoes, the length of their skirts, their talking, that they can’t wear coats in school, what food they should or shouldn’t be bringing in, their earrings, their wrong uniform for PE, it is completely endless and is still going on in year 13.

Silly rules is not really a new thing, I was in secondary school in the 90s and you'd get in trouble for black tights (grey or white only) and the wrong colour scrunchy

Our school has the coat rule too because presumably some kids will take the piss with the rule and wear their coat as long as possible.

in what way is that a bad thing that prevents anyone learning or disturbs teaching?

God so many people don't get it.

Schools are trying to teach young people to function as adult humans leaving in large social groups - this requires people to follow many, many rules, often without question.

There's no such thing as a "petty" or "silly" rule.The point is that their teachers are in charge and to reinforce that students must simply follow the rules.

As a child you think they're ridiculous but really they aren't when you look at how people have to function as a society. As a pp said there needs to be a clear reasoning behind the rules but otherwise as parents our job is to work with schools, and make our children resilient to life. This includes telling them they allowed feelings but people don't have to cater to them!

I remember hating our uniform and the school encouraging us to put together arguments for a uniform change and setting up student councils etc. didn't do anything but gave us a taste of how society works.

See it isn't how DDs private school works at all. They can take coats with them to lessons but they hand phones in at the start of every day and are given back before they leave so I think this cuts out a lot of poor behaviour.
I think that MATs believe that parents want them to take a hard line and I do get that with the massive increase in bad behaviour in a lot of schools then the schools are desperate to try and be seen to be acting.
Most parents are incredibly naive about what happens in some schools so therefore can't rationalise why the schools have certain policies around uniform and behaviour. However instead of supporting the schools they moan and complain which then undermines the schools and passes a negative attitude towards school onto their kids and this perpetuates the whole cycle.

The only rule I'd suggest my kids question, is one that actually hurts or disadvantages some students, to a material degree.

Oh @Pugdays that's so sad. I hope you're in a much better place now x

Of course there is such a thing as petty rules
FFS

Most of the "pointless" or "petty" rules are about collective functioning and ensuring the safety, effectiveness etc of the whole group, over individual or personal desires.

Which ones?

That will be school specific

Are you a teacher?

Child has hood over their head and refuses to take it down.
Child uses hood to hook others.
Child hides weapons inside their coat.
Child hides phone inside their coat.

Consistent uniform rules reduce bullying and ensure equal treatment of all.

One ways systems ensure large groups travel safely around busy sites.

Removal of coats/hoods helps protect vulnerable pupils from those misbehaving and ensures aggressive pupils can be identified and given appropriate consequences.

Bag checks etc ensure forbidden items aren't brought in

Consequences for children forgetting the things they need to learn ensure children quickly learn to prioritise being as organised about their education as they are about their hobbies and social lives.

Going back to smaller schools and class sizes would help but given that lots of schools have been knocked down, that's not going to happen. Also there are less quality teachers that had good teaching themselves. Retention of staff. It's all upheaval for kids. I'd even go back to LEA control over academisation.

the kids (and parents) that don't care when rules are relatively normal/lax simply don't care when they are getting a detention for a crooked tie 3 times, and also a detention for being rowdy in class.

And the kids who keep the relatively normal/lax rules will stop caring when they are being punished as much as the rowdy ones for taking their coat off 30 seconds later than a control-freak head has decreed.

That in no way improves behaviour. And causes anxiety in the well-behaved kids.

And the excuses the heads/teachers give for these twattish rules? to get them used to the world of work? Even when i was in the army, if it was cold we put our combat jackets on over our jumpers, even in an office. We weren't penalised for wearing gloves if we were cold. That was the flippin' ARMY. And now?I wear hiking boots and coat, glove, hat and scarf to get to work. Which i then put in our cloakroom so i look presentable for clients. If I'm cold? i put on a jumper or turn up the heating/close a window. Batshit school uniform rules allow none of that.

@k2493 trust me it is a lot more than one or 2 kids who are causing these issues, hence the need for such strict rules.
My next door neighbour is HoY in an Outstanding school. He has been threatened with a knife twice this academic year and had numerous incidents of kids swearing and threatening him with physical violence.
You are deluded if you think the issue is only 1 or 2 kids. We are in a fairly MC rural area.

Ah, memories of Parks & Recreation.😂(google 'Parks & Rec funny jail scene' for anyone who doesn't know it)

An amusing anecdote from when I was teaching.

We had an after school twilight session all about the need to get the pupils learning ASAP on entering the classroom.
One example given was a pupil coming in and not taking their coat off and being able to use it to disrupt the lesson and not start work for 10 minutes etc.
We were told that it would be better if the pupil could come in, sat down, and started work all with the minimum of fuss and then once every one is settled and working to approach the pupil and ask them to take their coat off with a minimum of fuss.
Sounds pretty good
Until the next day when the same SLT that gave the talk came in and demanded that the pupil took their coat off and caused 10 minutes worth of disruption in the lesson and I got told off for allowing said pupil to wear the coat.
I referenced the talk from the twilight and got glared at and SLT walked away.

Just one anecdote of SLT saying one thing but doing/expecting another.

Why is anyone surprised? A critical mass of parents don’t give a shit and their kids are essentially unteachable at school, and screw it up for everyone else. Schools have no money, so this is the only way they can react.

Some of us aren't surprised and that's the reason why we opted out of state education

Scrolling through the comments to find out why taking off coats straight away is a school rule, can anyone enlighten me??

SLT newbie is predominantly about the way teachers are forced to deal with ridiculous working conditions to keep management and parents happy. It's a parody of the things causing the recruitment crisis (unpaid expected intervention, time wasting 'CPD', planning time being taken away, impossible deadlines etc.) and not really about rules for kids, who seem to be allowed to rule the roost.