To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

Swing their tits? 🤔

In the schools that I have worked in where there has been a choice/question about it. Parents have voted for a uniform.

And even if there wasn't a uniform policy there would still be a dress code and some parents would still complain about it.

I’ve taught in one school that was no uniform and parents went to governors to ask for one to be introduced- all the teachers voted against but were swamped by the parent vote.

I’ve taught in another secondary school which had a ‘relaxed’ uniform (sweatshirts and polo shirts) and parents wanted it ‘smartened up’ so it went to blazers, ties etcetc.

Parents equate smart uniform with private schools and feel it implies a good school. On the continent and in the US people think it’s hilarious we dress our children as mini businessmen. Especially as even in business most people don’t wear suits and ties any more!

No what is ridiculous is someone coming on here and telling us that US schools are so much better for children than UK schools and when challenged about the risk of being shot against the horror of one way corridors or wearing a blazer when it is hot saying they are happier with the threat of their children being shot. I can't imagine anything more ridiculous.

I just looked on google and it says there were 340 school shooting in US last year. The last shooting I remember in a British school was Dunblane nearly 30 years ago. The US population is roughly 5 times the size of the UK population but the shootings are many many times more.

The Virginia Tech shooting in 2023 had 32 fatalities. That alone is more than school shooting deaths in the UK for decades so yes don't come and lecture us as we really don't need that sort of advice. There are probably many countries we could learn from but the US really isn't one of them.

My GSs school is incredible and in a deprived seaside town with lots of deprivation. They are strict though and the kids seem to be thriving on it. They also give lots of rewards for good behaviour and support for kids who are struggling in any way.

The comp in my town is two schools that were merged to make one. I think one building has year 7, 8 and 9, the older kids are in the other building. Not sure how it works as I none of my grandchildren go there but my neighbours kids do and the neighbours seem happy with it. From what I've heard the teachers do have to do a bit of dashing between the two buildings which are nearly half a mile apart.

The school I went to in the 60s also merged, they were single sex grammar schools and "semi-detached" so they just knocked the corridors through and made it one school.

@coffeeaddict77 I'm a parent to a secondary school child. I definitely like uniform. She dreads "non uniform days" and having to pick what to wear to "look cool". Despite her having lots of lovely branded clothes like Nike, PLT etc. Which if it worries her that much I dread to think how others feel who aren't as fortunate

Maybe it's your lack of imagination that's the problem here.

If you're trying to tell me that schools that are appropriately funded (with excellent facilities for sport, fine arts, performance arts, fully staffed, full compliment of special education staff, with timely in-school assessment for SEN, and a comprehensive range of both academic and vocational courses, a nursery on site, buses to take students to away sports fixtures, debate competitions, etc, and an educational mission of focusing on the needs and ability of each individual student) have nothing to offer the UK, then all I can surmise is that you have some kind of a bee in your bonnet about the US, and you're not actually interested in looking objectively at the flaws in UK education or ways it could be improved.

Are there any other concerns on the part of parents that get the sort of attention uniform issues do?

Do parents get to vote on any other areas of school policy?

I think the uniform thing could be solved by having the apron / overall that Italia schools have. Although they ted to be for younger children.

A cotton loose fitting coverall and wear what you want underneath.

Although some parents would complain it wasn't smart enough.

No, they dont. Part of why they are there is to teach kids to simply be obedient.

I don’t want my daughter to be taught to simply be obedient.

Respect has to be earned - that’s as true for the students as it is for the teachers. The students should respect their community - staff and students - and be disciplined if they don’t, but blind obedience is not part of education.

Non-uniform days are very different from not having uniforms at all. When you are usually all wearing the same and you get maybe one day a term to wear your own clothes the pressure is huge, but when every single day, from your very first day of school, you just wore your normal clothes its not a big deal. The schools where I am have no uniforms, no dress codes even (not allowed as children have a legal right to self-expression in my country) but its not a fashion display, they just wear what's comfy (and I have never seen a single girl wearing a skimpy skirt or similar - they pretty much all wear trousers, leggings, or joggers)

@MumTeacherofMany my experience of a non uniform country chimes in with @Natsku 's.

If a school were to switch to non uniform the first week would be a fashion parade. By week 2 students would be wearing more normal clothes as they wouldn't want their 'best' ruined by art/tech/lunchtime football. There will still be a few in expensive brands but these will likely have worn expensive versions of uniform shoes etc.

My DCs all knew who was well off and who wasn't. They all know where each other lives, see each other outside of school.

Parents get sold the idea of strict uniform. What they don't get told is the reality. The lack of availability of the right colour uniform pieces other than from a specific and expensive supplier. That their otherwise well behaved child will find themselves in detention because their black school shoes were in some way 'wrong'.

@GnomeDePlume we must be very lucky then as we've never struggled to get hold of the uniform. It's available online and in store anytime it's needed. Its a nice, smart uniform and I'm glad they wear it. Shoes just need to be black. My DD wears kickers which are a great hard wearing shoe that is surprisingly fashionable now so again, no issues.

@MumTeacherofMany Then you are fortunate to have access to a uniform which is affordable, available and fit for purpose.

This isn't the case for all. When a school prescribes school branded everything this forces expensive repeat purchases onto parents especially when their DCs are growing like weeds and uniform pieces are quickly outgrown.

School shoes are frequently a bone of contention. A lot of schools insist on 'office' shoes and preclude brands like Kickers. Inexpensive office shoes are not practical when faced with the rigours of a school day and a decent walk too/from school. My DCs could walk the soles out of their prescribed 'suitable' school shoes within a term.

Yes but after the initial 'showing off' period , it would settle into jeans, trainers and T-shirts/ comfy tops. Check out any over 16 colleges.

@GnomeDePlume the city I live in must be very fortunate as all the schools I know (and teach in) I haven't been told of any uniform issues with parents 🙂

No I have a bee in my bonnet about children being safe, not being shot and not being so messed up they want to go into their school/old school and kill kids. You don't actually need much imagination to understand that.

Maybe you could focus on improving things in the US if that is your country rather than worrying about British kids having to observe a one way system in the school corridors. Doesn't matter how well funded the schools are if your child is dead.

Possibly depends on where you are. I live in a small town in the Midlands. We had a Hobson's choice of one secondary school.

In the 10 years I was associated with the school it was in and out of Special Measures a couple of times. The school went through more Heads than years I was associated with it. This included an extended period when it had no Head at all.

During that time it was cackademised (the process of academising failing schools). Then the academy trust gave up and threw the schools back to the DofE.

Contact with parents was practically non existent.

I think you'll probably find that the majority of parents DON'T support schools being overbearing about uniform. And would rather the SLT didn't suspend common sense on this issue and treat the kids as if they are toddlers when it comes to making a decision about whether they need their jumper on in the classroom or not. I'm sure it's not much fun as a teacher having to enforce the rules.

This is the same at my DD's school. They have sensible rules and are strict but proportionate about them. Lots of rewards, lots of fun, lots of kindness and lots of support for those that need it.

They don't try to 'look cool' if they usually wear no uniform. My DD and his friends just wore jeans and hoodies.

We have schools like that in the UK in terms of facilities the only thing we don't have is the on-site nursery. But the issues we have are staff retention and funding. Although, my DD's school is fully staffed.

My local school has an on site nursery.

Does it? I've never heard of that. The colleges have them round here but not schools.