To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

Our sons’ school has become like a madhouse, crazy stories about kids throwing things and cursing at teachers, setting things on fire in science, damaging the place. Everyone seems to be in detention or suspended or something. The worst thing is this seems to be everywhere around us too!!! I’d say your school is trying to get things under proper control!! I’d be happy!!

I have gone from working (as non-teaching support staff) in a relaxed school where behaviour was not good and is apparently getting worse to working in a new slant school. I don’t like the atmosphere in the school I am currently in and am looking to move (for various reasons) but without a doubt there is very little low level disruption in lessons. Not sure how they will cope when their students get older however as the petty rules will seem ridiculous to teenagers who are developing independent minds.

If I had to pick between slant and a school where behaviour was falling apart it would be slant. Or maybe not as it all seems so robotic so I don’t know what I would do actually.

However where my dc went and go is my ideal - big creative school with good and experienced teachers alongside ECTs - and I think behaviour is generally okay. Okay behaviour in a human school with a heart would be ok. They aren’t perfect but they are experienced. They are not part of a trust which helps.

@ifIwerenotanandroid secondary schools don't have pegs. Very few have lockers. The students have to carry everything around with them. Literally everything. Books, laptop, workbooks, pencil case, lunch, PE kit, art work, cookery ingredients....and their coat.

@kissyhead I haven't yet located it. It was pre-pandemic. I've been trying to remember where it was published. I think it was somewhere like The Economist.

Near enough all schools like this

Theres so many issues, lack of boundaries for kids (they’re being brought up with (“personal truths”, can’t even differentiate between boys and girls, kids demanding respect, little experience of getting on with the things they don’t like due to pandering parents) Easy parenting over effective parenting due to societal and economic pressures to work long hours, living away from extended family help, adults being told “they can have it all” complexity of entertainment (used to all sit down together and watch what was on tv), reading books. Now everything is “on demand” meaning kids fail to see long term.

Gen Z has been brought up like this. They don’t have the ability to set boundaries for themselves, inability to understand that the world doesn’t work the way they think it should. - these are the newly qualified teachers, experienced teachers have left.

it’s basically a bunch of kids (mentally anyway) trying to control a bunch of other kids. The experienced teachers that are left are trying to control everything and they don’t have the time (or probably the energy) to do anything else.

That's ridiculous. It was bad enough in our day, when we'd be carrying ALL the textbooks for the next 3 lessons/subjects, in case one of them was needed.

Pegs and satchels? Have you ever been into a senior school?

You can do that with rules that make actual sense.

Sounds like my DSs school. They seem more interested in uniform and 'safeguarding' than instilling a love of learning etc. My son is bright and able, but is bored and under stimulated. I don't blame the school, it's what they are told to do. I find it sad.

I’m wondering if anyone else has been in similar situation. I’m so torn. I’ve been married to my husband for 15 years and we have 2 daughters who were very longed for and both arrived after years of IVF. I honestly thought after getting through all that together that nothing would break us. But I feel like I’m drowning. We moved house a few years ago to be nearer family but the only house available at the time that suited our needs was a doer-upper and it’s taken 3 years and thousands of pounds to get it to where we’re at. I’ve never loved this house but logistically it made sense and it does tick all the boxes of what we were looking for. Was always happy just to plod along in it as kids have settled here and like their school here. But in that time I feel my husband and I are on different paths. He works full time over 4 days but has a hobby that takes him out 2 evenings a week and at times whole days at weekends. I work 3 full days in the office and one day from home which only leaves me one day and weekends to literally do all the housework/get shopping. Hubby will go and get shopping or vacuum for example if I ask him to, but he never just thinks to do things. The washing basket could be overflowing but he wouldn’t think to put on a load of washing, he just crams more stuff into it! Or worse, just leaves most of his washing on the floor. In his day off during the week I’ve no idea what he actually does most of the time. He spends long periods on his phone, I think he’s addicted to it. He’s incredibly untidy, always has been. I’m sick of asking him to do chores. I thought after 15 years the message would get through. But I’m fed up asking. I feel like I’m drowning today. He was on a mates birthday bash yesterday and was gone from lunchtime until he rolled in waking everyone up at 2.30am. He argues he doesn’t get out much, but he has had at least one full session/night out a month since last summer. His work often arrange nights out and he agrees to go on them all without a second thought. My friends all have young kids and don’t generally socialise on nights out, and I don’t particularly like going out either. It’s not that I’m jealous, but him being out just adds more stress because the next day is wasted because he is hungover. I’m really just tired of our life the way it is at present. I feel my weeks just roll the same way all the time. Work, school runs, housework, taking kids to clubs, shopping and more chores. I feel I’d be better off on my own because I wouldn’t be constantly tidying up after him. But I also don’t want to break up the family unit for the sake of the kids. I know you shouldn’t stay together for the sake of the kids but neither of them cope well with change (they’re both being assessed for autism). Last year I decided I couldn’t deal with it any longer and he promised to change so I’ve kept going but it’s all just slipping backwards again. I’m deeply unhappy but am terrified of breaking up my kids lives. Please, am I being unreasonable feeling like this? Am I expecting too much of my husband? I know men are wired differently to women. But I’m broken 😞

I can't see uniform completely falling out of favour but I'd love to see uniform become more basic, comfortable and affordable. At Primary I could buy all uniform at the supermarket. My DD could wear stretchy jersey trousers, a polo shirt and jumper/cardigan and then just her trainers. I chose her Secondary as one that she can still wear the jersey trousers from the supermarket and then a blouse and jumper - which is comfortable for her. However, the blouse and jumper have to be specific ones along with school shoes - very expensive! She can also remove her jumper if hot.

My DD wears trousers not skirts but the rule for skirts is they must be on the knee or lower. The vast majority of the girls follow this - I've only seen a few older girls with skirts just above the knee - no super short skirts atall. At all other schools I see girls wearing super short skirts. I'm not sure the exact reason - I imagine parents are onboard with the rules as they are sensible, same with the DC they know they won't get a detention for nothing so they respect the rules more.

I have 2 DSs and have noticed this. Both observe big gendered variations in how kids are treated.

There's 6 school year between my eldest and youngest.

We move to area so spent ages looking ats secondaries - this was rated good was on a good exam results path excellent pastoral care.

Inspection was upset those at bottom while improving weren't improving fast enough- head got forced out - they struggled to find a replacement - then covid made everything so much worse.

They did eventually find a head since then stripped out of the pastoral care - got rid of nearly all experienced teachers struggle massively to hold on to new staff - DD2 form tutor didn't last first term. Behaviour noise and bullying and rife they systematically made accessing toilets and eating at lunch and break harder and harder to point is a source of anxiety for many. Exam result have crashed but that's blamed of social economics of local area - ie low expectations for all.

Kids like DD2 who anywhere else would be doing really well and starting to struggle with anxiety to point she can't stay in lessons and school isn't bothered as she on site and in register. There are good teachers left who do try but many of them have one foot out door and given pupil behavior can't say I'm surprised.

All we hear from the school is mostly uniform focused and very petty and often changed to be even more restrictive.

Its not rocket science. Kids just need to listen.

I really wish this country would fall out of love with uniform.

I was just thinking this today because soon as they get to college and just wear clothes it so much easier and they can also dress for the weather better as well.

Welcome to modern day secondary schools.

I teach at a school that has increased from 900 to 1500 kids over the last 10 years.

Increased numbers, extra classrooms/buildings squeezed onto the same sized site. 1960s buildings with small classroom and tiny corridors that aren't designed to cope with such numbers

The ONLY way to cope with that amount of pupils is to have strict rules with a zero tolerance policy.

MOST (95%) of the kids at my school are lovely, stick to the rules even if they're not keen on them, and just get on with it.

It's the other 5% that causes most the issues, and why the very clear rules are in place. And most of these kids all seem to have parents who refuse to support the school rules, or don't seem to care much about their child's education. It's quite sad really. The kids have few or no boundaries at home, and the parent seem to think the same should apply at school.

Kids do need to learn to stick to rules though, as grown ups have to comply with laws.

Took the words right out of my mouth

This sounds like a school that just joined a MAT

A school getting obsessive about uniform is a school with the wrong priorities. It's a good indicator of a badly managed school- schools tend to obsess about small things if the big ones are going wrong and they either don't want to, or can't, sort the big things out. (I say this as an ex-teacher.)
PS I have never supported school uniform, and would tell any head who dared tell me what to wear as a teacher to either back off and apologise, or start looking for my replacement because I'd be leaving at the end of my notice period.

@Mumofgirls2911 best to start your own thread, you have accidentally posted on someone else’s so yours may be overlooked.

I think there are loads of schools like this now, unfortunately. They seem to have forgotten that they are supposed to be there for an education, not army training. My son is lucky, his school isn't participating in such over the top discipline, but schools close by certainly are.

Isn't having to carry a coat around a good place to hide a knife or whatever?

Increased numbers, extra classrooms/buildings squeezed onto the same sized site. 1960s buildings with small classroom and tiny corridors that aren't designed to cope with such numbers

Funnily enough DS secondary is a new building about a decade old and still has all these problems.

Tiny corridors and over crowded stairs cases and new one like toilets that open onto corridors with sinks and doors visible walking past -which now have metal shutter on most of the time and no lockers.

They also have a canteen too small for the school population - no idea why but they did have staggered meals times at one point bit 30 minutes lunch doesn't allow that now. Covid they opened hall and classrooms - now they aren't allowed to eat inside other than canteen due to cleaning costs - so get shoved outside all weathers they get shouted at for eating outside as well. Revision classes and groups also happen in those 30 minutes - and queue for toilet can take all 30 minutes.

They also have larger than ideal class sizes but that's more to do with not enough teaching staff than lack of classrooms.

On plus side not been hit by RAAC - not like DN and my old school which has made their 50s main buildings unusable.

The threat of SS if you tell your DC off?? I mean I suppose it depends how you tell them off. I just talk to mine. If you abusively tell them off then maybe you need to be worried.

Minor point but do schools really still have rules about the length of boys' hair - is that not discriminatory? DS hair is down to his elbows (always ties it up) - school have never said a thing - I assumed they couldn't as girls can have long hair.

My dd wore skirts at secondary because school trousers for girls just did not fit her body type. Things are slowly getting better with different fits in school trousers but girls are much more likely to be told off for wearing trousers that are too tight because unlike boys, they have hips and uniform rules see this as wearing clothes that are too tight which is against the rules.