Page 38 | To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

k2493 · 2024-01-07T11:09:10+00:00

Just posting for thoughts Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids. Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship. Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention. Every hallway is a one way system. The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold. He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again. AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

wingsandstrings · 12/01/2024 22:31

Yes, my DS got shouted at for wearing his coat over his games kit just for going from the lockers to the field, he was going to take it off at that point. He is also not allowed to wear it indoors even in the coldest of classrooms (which are desperately cold). Why?????? How does shivering miserably aid learning, or behaviour or any of the other stuff we hope school will help them with. It's this petty use of power that makes some teens despise school.

cornbeeflegs · 12/01/2024 22:33

greengreengrass25 · 12/01/2024 22:24

I never had to wear a tie thank goodness

I hate wearing anything tight round my neck

I didn't mind wearing a tie but didn't like it tightly done up so always wore it loosened, thankfully never got told off. Hence not insisting that my children do either. As long as it looks smart I don't see the obsession with top buttons having to be done up

CannyCaren · 12/01/2024 22:35

Guess who just turned up at my child's school. Barry Smith.

Littlemisscapable · 13/01/2024 06:48

This feels like a tory plan to have this generation just do what they are told, follow the rules at all costs and not to question anything. Teenagers need lots of structure and boundaries but also empathy and kindness. Some of these examples are so depressing to read. Surely schools have a responsibility to ensure students are not far too hot /cold. This isn't the army.

Poppytops88 · 13/01/2024 06:55

Parents complaining at dd school as its so cold inside the school. Dd says its freezing cold. They aren't allowed their coats inside at all.

LolaSmiles · 13/01/2024 07:41

Absolutely standard practice these days. I bet the senior staff are all ex PE teachers wearing navy suits and tan shoes.
I only made it this far in the thread!
Nail. Head. 😂

That describes a few schools in my area.

MrsMurphyIWish · 13/01/2024 08:42

Verbena17 · 12/01/2024 11:24

Thanks for calling me ‘dim’ @Sherrystrull 😊 That’ll be a lunch break detention.

I completely understand what you’re saying but I think you’re misunderstanding what I originally was saying. I was saying teachers are in a good position to make the small changes needed to reduce the red tape discipline that this whole post is on about.
Ive not said anything remotely arrogant or rude or bashing against teachers and I’m not saying how teachers should teach and how they should do their job - there are some absolutely brilliant teachers who are obviously hampered in what they do because of ridiculous rules set by government, MATS and SLTs.

I’m being positive; saying they can use advocacy for the children they teach- small changes in class, at lunchtimes and by reducing the crazy detentions for simple things that are not proportional to the ‘crime etc. And yes, I totally get how there isn’t much spare time to do anything other than plan and teach and also the additional burden of ofsted constraints but tell me what happens at staff meetings?

Is there not opportunity (at least monthly if not weekly) to put forward items for the agenda? A relative of mine certainly has that ability in primary staff meetings. Surely staff meetings aren’t just SLT talking and barking orders- isn’t it a 360 degree meeting where anyone can speak/bring ideas to the table?

In the same way midwives themselves (with parents) brought about better outcomes and changes for labouring mothers, surely there’s a way for teachers to be that bridge to better outcomes in schools - behavioural outcomes I mean, not academic.

Apologies if the conversation has moved on, but actually THIS is what a staff meeting is like in secondary. They’re like mini insets where SLT or other agencies come in and lecture us about XYZ. There are nearly 200 teachers at my school. We sit in the lecture theatre for meetings. There isn’t collaboration at all.

I just hide at the back and mark!

Verbena17 · 13/01/2024 11:47

@MrsMurphyIWish well I meant your subject /year group meetings.
What are they like?

FrippEnos · 13/01/2024 22:59

Verbena17

Headteachers dictate what they want the school to be like.
They set the tone for the whole school.
Teachers have no say in how the school is run or the directives that come down from the HT or SLT.
What teachers can do is bend the rules slightly to make the pupils and their own lives easier. But there is a limit as to how much individual teachers bend the rules.
I have known some tat just ignore anything that comes down from the HT, unfortunately these are the teachers that make it hard for everyone.

Verbena17 · 13/01/2024 23:19

It’s very strange @FrippEnos because on the one hand it looks like secondaries are being managed more like businesses than schools and yet at the same time, they’re not being managed like modern businesses at all!

Both ways, sadly the kids are losing out.

FrippEnos · 13/01/2024 23:29

Verbena17 · 13/01/2024 23:19

It’s very strange @FrippEnos because on the one hand it looks like secondaries are being managed more like businesses than schools and yet at the same time, they’re not being managed like modern businesses at all!

Both ways, sadly the kids are losing out.

Somebody (the government and DFE) need to decide on what schools are actually supposed to do and how they are supposed to do it and fund them properly.
If schools are to be run like businesses then children will always loose out.
If they are to be run for education then they need to be fully funded and less final goal driven.
And If they are are supposed to be welfare centres then funding and training must be provided.
Either way the more society the government, DfE etc. want schools and teachers to provide the more they are going to fail and children loose out.

And what ever happens they need to reign in the academies and make them accountable for all the poor practices.

And remember that as an employee teachers also have rights that are protected.

Verbena17 · 13/01/2024 23:54

FrippEnos · 13/01/2024 23:29

Somebody (the government and DFE) need to decide on what schools are actually supposed to do and how they are supposed to do it and fund them properly.
If schools are to be run like businesses then children will always loose out.
If they are to be run for education then they need to be fully funded and less final goal driven.
And If they are are supposed to be welfare centres then funding and training must be provided.
Either way the more society the government, DfE etc. want schools and teachers to provide the more they are going to fail and children loose out.

And what ever happens they need to reign in the academies and make them accountable for all the poor practices.

And remember that as an employee teachers also have rights that are protected.

Show quote history

Yes you’re right. It’s currently a total mishmash of loads of different styles.
Sadly the government isn’t even getting primary reading right according to this article….
1 in 4 children not meeting reading goals by age 11….
https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/education/volunteers-required-to-help-peterborough-school-children-learn-to-read-4474293?fbclid=IwAR0sMQXv6gkguBMl151rUOn0Lu9VFLprsHdrl5WgU7NiVOu_4txAJGYnd-o_aem_AYoxAzEgL8lrv0ZUKinIiPX-LfB3Ayht4FTtBy4VyRIUgU3TZzjrmuDF4QjRqhpiTWs

UndertheCedartree · 13/01/2024 23:59

cansu · 11/01/2024 22:23

UndertheCedartree
I think many people would be surprised about how much disruptive behaviour 'nurturing' schools tolerate and allow. If you have a child in a low set who is quiet and wants to get on then often the nurture means allowing students to disturb lessons day in, day out.

I can't say that's been my experience, atall.

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:04

Verbena17 · 11/01/2024 23:23

The secondary here has branded everything!
Blazer, tie, tartan skirt (extra cost for girls), PE rugby top, PE polo shirt, PE shorts, PE gym skort, PE long Gross socks.

Mega expensive and cheap polyester crap.

Show quote history

The school's her friends are at have branded skirts too! Crazy!

I forgot about shorts as not got them yet. They wear plain sports leggings in winter but will need special shorts for the summer.

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:09

Sherrystrull · 11/01/2024 23:51

I did read your post @Verbena17.

It's great you volunteered in school. However that doesn't make you able to make all the comments you have about teachers. Volunteers have a very minimal and rose tinted view of the job of a teacher just as a teacher lady in a hospital cannot imagine the role and responsibilities of a doctor.

I absolutely teach my class to be assertive and stand up for themselves.

Tell me then,

How do I get ten children in my class assessed for SEND when we can only afford 3 Ed psych visits for the entire school over a year?

How can I get the SENDcO to observe these children when they are covering multiple classes and showed under supporting the children we already have on the SEND register?

I'm tired of people blaming teachers for not standing up for themselves, not caring about the children in our care and not doing enough.

If there was better funding we could support these children more. However you bleating on about teachers not doing enough is insulting when you're battling a brick wall every day.

What are you doing to change things?

I get things are difficult for teachers. But please don't make this teacher Vs parent and anyone who's not a teacher can't possibly understand.

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:10

Verbena17 · 12/01/2024 00:26

I was about to reply in full and then I re-read your extremely patronising and arsey comments about school volunteers and tea ladies in hospitals.

I don’t care what you do for your own class. As you’ve pointed out, I’m not a teacher so cannot possible imagine or comment. 😉
But magically, as a mum who spent hours pouring through the SEND Code of Practice, was able to get my child assessed and diagnosed for ASD, assessed by the county lead Ed Psych twice in 3 months at home (even though I was told they would never do assessments at home), got him an EHCP even when they refused to assess and then got him very the last place in a brand new special school.
The secret…..not involving his teachers or his school!

Show quote history

Well done, you!

I was told by many teachers there was no chance I'd win my appeal to get my DD in to her school - but I bloody did! ☺️

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:15

sashh · 12/01/2024 04:27

I like the idea but it wouldn't work, you would need to have science labs, art tooms, IT rooms etc in each 'school'.

The coats thing could be solved by having a school coat as part of the uniform. Wear the school coat and take it off when you get in or take your non uniform coat off outside.

To get round the problem of coats going missing you could use a tag like a microchip / airtag in the lining.

I've said a number of times PE kit should be designed so it can be worn as a summer uniform for the odd week it is 30+ in the UK.

My school (comp but run by nuns) had delusions of grandeur so we did have school coats and a seperate summer uniform to be worn from Easter until the September holidays (Lancashire, at the time the school holidays were similar to Scotland).

Show quote history

Like many schools at Dds they wear their P E kit to school on P E days so no reason it can't be used as a summer uniform. Although the girls' blouse is short sleeved so with a skirt is fine for hot weather anyway.

Verbena17 · 14/01/2024 00:20

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:10

Well done, you!

I was told by many teachers there was no chance I'd win my appeal to get my DD in to her school - but I bloody did! ☺️

Show quote history

It’s totally exhausting isn’t it!?

But brilliant you got a place for your DD and got through the ridiculously crazy SEND system!

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:25

pissedoffwithschool · 12/01/2024 17:13

@UndertheCedartree
I don't know what the solution is really. The standard uniform is skirt/shirt/tie/jumper and the same has to be worn throughout the school for every lesson (apart from PE). So it doesn't matter whether it's a freezing cold Art room, or a really warm Science lab or Food Tech room (both of which get even warmer if they're doing experiments/cooking respectively). There's no leeway in terms of being able to remove jumpers if they get too hot; the only time that this is allowed is during warm summer weather in which case a general school announcement is made. Even then, students aren't allowed to have ties loose or roll their sleeves up.

It really makes no sense.

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:27

Goldbar · 12/01/2024 22:28

What happens between finishing year 6 and starting year 7 that means that children no longer need to be nurtured, supported and treated as individuals?

Exactly my point. They don't suddenly turn into these unruly monsters.

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:32

FrippEnos · 13/01/2024 22:59

Verbena17

Headteachers dictate what they want the school to be like.
They set the tone for the whole school.
Teachers have no say in how the school is run or the directives that come down from the HT or SLT.
What teachers can do is bend the rules slightly to make the pupils and their own lives easier. But there is a limit as to how much individual teachers bend the rules.
I have known some tat just ignore anything that comes down from the HT, unfortunately these are the teachers that make it hard for everyone.

Yes, I think this is the teacher's main power being able to bend the rules.

UndertheCedartree · 14/01/2024 00:35

Verbena17 · 14/01/2024 00:20

It’s totally exhausting isn’t it!?

But brilliant you got a place for your DD and got through the ridiculously crazy SEND system!

Show quote history

Beyond exhausting!

CornishIrish · 14/01/2024 00:36

Thank you for posting this. I thought it was just our bad luck/poor school. I don’t know if there are any schools local to us who are not MAT now.

We really need to make it clear in an election year that this is not the way we want our children to be taught.

theresnolimits · 14/01/2024 18:02

I post this on every thread but no one listens. Most teachers hate uniform. But parents love it.

We hate the negative interactions over minor infringement of rules we don’t set and that don’t affect learning. But OFSTED/SMT and yes parents want to have uniform. Most of the western world doesn’t.

And so we get endless chastised when we don’t enforce it ( leadership) and complaints when we do.

coffeeaddict77 · 14/01/2024 18:10

theresnolimits · 14/01/2024 18:02

I post this on every thread but no one listens. Most teachers hate uniform. But parents love it.

We hate the negative interactions over minor infringement of rules we don’t set and that don’t affect learning. But OFSTED/SMT and yes parents want to have uniform. Most of the western world doesn’t.

And so we get endless chastised when we don’t enforce it ( leadership) and complaints when we do.

What evidence is there that parents love the strict uniform policies that some schools have.