To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

Again - why does stricter discipline work better with kids from.rougher backgrounds?

You would have thought.
When I was at school rules seemed much more reasonable. Most teachers turned a blind eye to us having our ties loose as long as they looked tidy, and we were allowed to have shirts untucked at lunchtimes as long as they got tidied again before lessons

That's really wonderful to hear ☺️

I mean more and more schools are following this fashion and the behaviour is getting worse not better. My DD's nurturing school on the other hand has a reputation for how well behaved the students are. As you say school is there to educate so let's do what we can to improve behaviour so learning can happen!

I don’t necessarily mean individually fight for it but as a body.
In staff meetings isn’t this sort of thing discussed?
I’m not a teacher but spent the entirety of my childrens’ school lives fighting to get them much needed support for different issues, including SEND issues.

Wildlife walker
I have absolutely no objection to this at all! I always say to my class at the start of the lesson please take off if your blazer if you need to. Personally I think the following is perfectly sensible
Kids wear the school uniform properly
They arrive on time
They are respectful and quiet when required
They bring the equipment needed
They stay in their seat and listen
They don't use their phones
They walk on one side of the corridor
They don't screech and shout in public spaces like corridors and loos
They complete sanctions given without a massive drama

Is this so radical??

It is common, you only have to read this thread to see that. Most of our local schools here have gone that way and I hear the same from teacher friends/parent friends in other parts of the country. And yeah, there are a few parents like that but the majority are not.

I wasn’t meaning SEND issues /funding that cannot be quickly sorted by teaching staff.
I mean for staff to get together and decide on minimising the ridiculous petty rules, like no loo break, no blazers removed, detention for breathing talking etc.
I mean the stuff that can easily be dealt with by staff and passed up to the SLT.

It's crazy, isn't it? I mean what is the point of detentions if they don't matter. And I'm pretty sure they matter to the student who is missing their after school time.

So would you agree that my daughter's teacher was unreasonable?

Who's blaming teachers? Some people have questioned or commented on teachers roles but predominantly people are putting the blame on government/academies/SLT

I don't know if anyone has suggested that. It's more a correlation where wealthy areas have more resources, inside the school and inside the kids homes.

Kids deprived in various ways are more likely to live in deprived neighborhoods and the local schools have less resources to draw on, and that includes teachers who want to teach at those schools. The school may be short staffed or have less experienced staff, while teachers will often move on when they get another opportunity.

Kids who are disruptive can often be bounced out of other schools and are more likely to be at schools who have no choice as to which kids they accept.

Therefore it's a lot easier to be more relaxed with discipline when the schools and homes have more resources and you can expel children that cause problems.

Instability in the home has a big effect on a child's ability to learn and function. Of course instability in the home can be found across the class spectrum, but is more common in lower-income families. Again, children from higher income backgrounds are likely to have more resources to draw on, in and outside school to make up for some of this chaos.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-08587-8

In a nutshell poorer kids are more likely to attend lower quality schools with higher student numbers and low teacher ratio. Therefore more structured discipline may be used, not because it's better for these kids, but because teachers are dealing with very different issues than teachers in other schools; such as a larger literal number of kids and a higher number getting no support or structure at home.

I had a look and it seems that a 'charter school' is what we call an 'academy' and there are also trusts of multiple charter schools like our multi academy trusts. So it's the same kinds of schools using these methods. All I can say is I hope it doesn't move down to Primary here.

Possible, although they look a little young.

@Verbena17

I advise you to volunteer in a school. You will then see that teachers as a body have limited capacity to change anything in school, especially big things like uniform. That gets decided by government, slt and governors.

I rarely see my teaching colleagues as I am in class all day every day teaching, marking, assessing and preparing.

I mean surely the way to be least disruptive is to just let someone who is too hot quietly take off their jumper?! And surely the teacher must know temperatures affect people differently. I'm sorry your DD was upset.

‘…big things like uniform’ aren’t decided by government 🤔
Uniform like taking your blazer off when you feel like it or not having your top button done up as long as you can’t see it etc. I mean they can deal with the niff naff and trivia that’s unnecessary.

And I did used to volunteer in a primary school and would love to help secondary kiddos now, but I’m a carer for my autistic DS so don’t have time.

As mentioned my Dd's school is in a working class area. They are incredibly nurturing. It's possible.

Not radical atall. Why do you ask?

Your DD was wearing uniform properly - she was just hot and wanted to take her jumper off. Ridiculously, she had to disrupt the lesson to ask if she could take it off and then the teacher prevented her. She then needed to loosen her tie - strictly speaking maybe not wearing uniform properly but better than feeling really ill and not being able to participate in the lesson. Your DD was completely reasonable.

@Verbena17

Then if you don't have time to volunteer and educate yourself on the issue, stop spouting information and opinions about teachers that you clearly know nothing about.

The government and Ofsted have clear agendas that schools have to follow if we want to do well in inspections. So yes, the government does make decisions like that. They certainly have much more clout than a class teacher or two getting together to stamp their feet. Honestly.

One of these schools which is our catchment school is actually quite small in terms of numbers of pupils. I don't think anyone wants to send their DC there but obviously many don't get a choice. The Primary school our DC went to actually had more pupils and an amazing pastoral care department. The secondary at one time was considered good but it seems to have a never ending succession of head teachers. I don't think anyone particularly wants to be there teachers or students.

She is a parent carer so not sure she'd be able, tbf.

I thought with uniform the government said schools should just have one branded item which most secondary schools don't seem to stick to atall!

At my Dd's school the main uniform only has one branded item - the jumper. But then you also have P.E kit with a branded top and hoodie so still ends up being expensive.

UndertheCedartree
I think many people would be surprised about how much disruptive behaviour 'nurturing' schools tolerate and allow. If you have a child in a low set who is quiet and wants to get on then often the nurture means allowing students to disturb lessons day in, day out.