To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

What’s sad is, you’re teaching our children to become independent and assertive young people….and yet from your reply, you seem to imply teachers have zero say themselves in anything and cannot make small changes. Kind of goes against the whole point of education.

If you had properly read my post, you’ll see I had volunteered in a school (for 2 yrs) and I’m now a parent cared and cannot therefore volunteer anymore. Just because someone isn’t a teacher, doesn’t mean they’re not up to understanding difficulties in teaching or schools. My child’s teachers didn’t understand autism but I don’t moan on and on that they all effed up his life.

The secondary here has branded everything!
Blazer, tie, tartan skirt (extra cost for girls), PE rugby top, PE polo shirt, PE shorts, PE gym skort, PE long Gross socks.

Mega expensive and cheap polyester crap.

I did read your post @Verbena17.

It's great you volunteered in school. However that doesn't make you able to make all the comments you have about teachers. Volunteers have a very minimal and rose tinted view of the job of a teacher just as a teacher lady in a hospital cannot imagine the role and responsibilities of a doctor.

I absolutely teach my class to be assertive and stand up for themselves.

Tell me then,

How do I get ten children in my class assessed for SEND when we can only afford 3 Ed psych visits for the entire school over a year?

How can I get the SENDcO to observe these children when they are covering multiple classes and showed under supporting the children we already have on the SEND register?

I'm tired of people blaming teachers for not standing up for themselves, not caring about the children in our care and not doing enough.

If there was better funding we could support these children more. However you bleating on about teachers not doing enough is insulting when you're battling a brick wall every day.

What are you doing to change things?

*tea lady

I was about to reply in full and then I re-read your extremely patronising and arsey comments about school volunteers and tea ladies in hospitals.

I don’t care what you do for your own class. As you’ve pointed out, I’m not a teacher so cannot possible imagine or comment. 😉
But magically, as a mum who spent hours pouring through the SEND Code of Practice, was able to get my child assessed and diagnosed for ASD, assessed by the county lead Ed Psych twice in 3 months at home (even though I was told they would never do assessments at home), got him an EHCP even when they refused to assess and then got him very the last place in a brand new special school.
The secret…..not involving his teachers or his school!

I like the idea but it wouldn't work, you would need to have science labs, art tooms, IT rooms etc in each 'school'.

The coats thing could be solved by having a school coat as part of the uniform. Wear the school coat and take it off when you get in or take your non uniform coat off outside.

To get round the problem of coats going missing you could use a tag like a microchip / airtag in the lining.

I've said a number of times PE kit should be designed so it can be worn as a summer uniform for the odd week it is 30+ in the UK.

My school (comp but run by nuns) had delusions of grandeur so we did have school coats and a seperate summer uniform to be worn from Easter until the September holidays (Lancashire, at the time the school holidays were similar to Scotland).

@Verbena17 if teachers had any say in changing things why do you think they are all leaving? People don't leave jobs where they have agency.
Primary is so different to secondary so it is like comparing apples and pears.
You have experience of primary but not of secondary.

@sashh my secondary was basically like my suggestion though. We were divided into 3 different buildings (originally separate schools but on the same campus). There were occasions we would have to go to one of the other buildings instead of our "own" - my building didn't have science or DT classrooms so we had to go across for those lessons. But 90% was in your own building with it's own teaching staff.
It was 3 forms per year (so approx 90 students) so didn't feel like a massive school.
However.....they scrapped that system and we were all mixed together. Now 9 forms per year (almost 300 students). Way more movement between the buildings (time consuming). And incredibly easy to become invisible now you were one of 300.

@Verbena17

It's great you've been able to champion and work for your child. Many parents don't or can't.

You don't have the capacity to see past your own experience and realise that other parents don't do the same.

Of course you can comment on your experience but all of your comments of teachers need to do this, teachers don't do this and schools should do this whilst ignoring what teachers are telling you are insensitive and dim.

Why do you think you can comment on what goes on in schools when your only experience is short term volunteering and having your own dc?

It's a major issue in schools that many parents feel like you. I'd never be so arrogant to talk like that about any profession I've never worked in and would be receptive to the experiences of people doing the job.

Oh well, continue to drag down teachers, ignore the realities of the job they are telling you about and keep telling them what they should be doing. Just don't expect there to be any teachers left to listen.

I think that's it's a great idea to separate a larger school into smaller more manageable blocks with shared special resources such as science.

I guess you would need more teachers though and that would eat into the 'profit' (fat cat salaries) made by academies.

Thanks for calling me ‘dim’ @Sherrystrull 😊 That’ll be a lunch break detention.

I completely understand what you’re saying but I think you’re misunderstanding what I originally was saying. I was saying teachers are in a good position to make the small changes needed to reduce the red tape discipline that this whole post is on about.
Ive not said anything remotely arrogant or rude or bashing against teachers and I’m not saying how teachers should teach and how they should do their job - there are some absolutely brilliant teachers who are obviously hampered in what they do because of ridiculous rules set by government, MATS and SLTs.

I’m being positive; saying they can use advocacy for the children they teach- small changes in class, at lunchtimes and by reducing the crazy detentions for simple things that are not proportional to the ‘crime etc. And yes, I totally get how there isn’t much spare time to do anything other than plan and teach and also the additional burden of ofsted constraints but tell me what happens at staff meetings?

Is there not opportunity (at least monthly if not weekly) to put forward items for the agenda? A relative of mine certainly has that ability in primary staff meetings. Surely staff meetings aren’t just SLT talking and barking orders- isn’t it a 360 degree meeting where anyone can speak/bring ideas to the table?

In the same way midwives themselves (with parents) brought about better outcomes and changes for labouring mothers, surely there’s a way for teachers to be that bridge to better outcomes in schools - behavioural outcomes I mean, not academic.

My take out from this thread is:

There is a behaviour challenge amongst kids. Schools will sit on a spectrum of how bad this is but it sounds as though all schools are experiencing worsening behaviour overall.

Some MATs and schools, and I would say from this thread, increasing numbers, are attempting to solve this with extremely stringent, zero tolerance, punishment heavy behaviour policies.

Many parents feel this is the wrong approach and it is negatively impacting children, especially those who are generally well behaved and want to be 'good'.

I've not seen any evidence of the success of stricter policies in creating better learning?

I feel there is a lack of root cause analysis of the problem. Isn't the poor behaviour a result of a) the impact of the pandemic on mental health and socialisation among kids b) the financial stresses in many homes that must surely impact kids c) an investment shortfall in schools meaning teachers and schools are trying to do more with less resources and are too thinly stretched to respond sensibly.

I really feel doubling down on more rules and punishment is the last thing we should be doing and will only be further damaging to a generation we have already failed.

A lot of schools now seem to assume that every pupil is disrespectful and disruptive so every interaction assumes the worst of the pupil.
Imagine being subject to senseless, continual collective punishment all day, every day regardless of how carefully you individually try and follow the arbitrary rules.

This is what I mean by schools are horrible. I'm just glad my kids are grown up and they can't do any more mental health damage to my youngest. It's taken her years to get back the self-confidence and self-esteem she had when she was 11.

My DS has just started year 7 and is, slowly, it seems, becoming rather jaded and cynical about school and education. It's really hard to watch. He loved primary / elementary (as we were overseas for a while). Now he says teachers shout at kids or at the whole class for what he says are fairly minor things (though I don't doubt the teachers are pushed to breaking point with disruptive behaviour). But he is a 'good' kid, in the sense that he has not had a single negative behaviour point since starting and is always punctual and always has everything he needs and contributes in class. But I think it's actually really stressful for him to toe the line all the time and I'm sure he worries about being pulled up on behaviour which I think in turn impacts on how relaxed/happy he feels in school and subsequently on his ability to learn.

And I just worry that the negative vibes he is picking up on (from both teachers and other classmates) is really impacting his interest in learning or attending school. I understand the reasons why many teachers want to leave, I just wonder how their desperation to 'get out' impacts on the overall atmosphere in a school. It can't be good for anyone, and from my perspective it's not great that my DS is being taught by teachers who seemingly, by and large, would rather be anywhere else (even if this is completely understandable). Such a difficult cycle to break to make schools a positive and caring place that kids actually want to go to - and there are so many factors involved in changing this.

@Verbena17 I think the problem is that many of the ultra strict schools are academies run by academy trusts.

These are businesses to all intents and purposes. They are following a strict model. FIFO (fit in or fuck off) is probably applied as much to staff as students.

Businesses aren't really interested in what Bob The Machine Operator has to say. Ultra strict school SLTs won't be interested in what teaching staff have to say.

The academy trusts are probably not that interested in what school SLTs have to say.

What seems to be being applied is something similar to a franchise model. A bit like McDonald's or KFC. Everyone does the same thing, wears the uniform, follows the same rules.

That works for McDonald's or KFC because they can control every part of the process. This is also why PE teachers make a good fit for HT roles. All those sports rules to follow or you get sent off.

It doesn't work long term for schools. McDonald's & KFC have customers. Who is the customer for a school? Students, parents, society as a whole? They aren't businesses so shouldn't try and pretend they are.

If a teacher is hot/cold they take off/put on clothes as appropriate. Why are children not allowed the same? It is nonsense.

The whole academization policy is based on Tory dogma rather than what is best for pupils and teachers. They are based on a business model that has no place in a "service" - although it would seem that the Tories have no idea what that precious word means.

I am CofG of a rural primary school and we are fighting a rearguard action to keep our happy successful school out of the clutches of a MAT. I do not know how long we can hold out. I am researching ethics-based MATs - so if anyone has any useful info on this I would be grateful.

It is deeply sad that motivated happy children are fed into these autocratic sausage machines - no, worse still, it is disgrace.

By the way my children went to a school with no uniform - the adult well-balanced brain surgeons, lawyers, carpenters, electricians, social workers etc are none the worse for that experience.

Yes i think you might be right @GnomeDePlume .

Whilst I don’t generally agree with church schools, this is a trust with multiple academies trusts near us with some lovely schools. I wonder if this type of thing is more like the ethics-academies you mention?
https://www.pdet.org.uk/

@UndertheCedartree
I don't know what the solution is really. The standard uniform is skirt/shirt/tie/jumper and the same has to be worn throughout the school for every lesson (apart from PE). So it doesn't matter whether it's a freezing cold Art room, or a really warm Science lab or Food Tech room (both of which get even warmer if they're doing experiments/cooking respectively). There's no leeway in terms of being able to remove jumpers if they get too hot; the only time that this is allowed is during warm summer weather in which case a general school announcement is made. Even then, students aren't allowed to have ties loose or roll their sleeves up.

So ridiculous! Surely you can't concentrate properly if you're too hot, or too cold. Kids will kick off if they're uncomfortable. It's as though they want this so they can give out punishments.

What a miserable existence some of our children are living at school.

I despair at these petty rules. I've always regarded school uniform as working attire for my children, and as such I've always encouraged them to look smart but also to be comfortable too. So they generally have their top buttons undone and ties done to hide the undone button, and if shirts become untucked then as long as they are under the jumper then it's not an issue.

I never had to wear a tie thank goodness

I hate wearing anything tight round my neck

What happens between finishing year 6 and starting year 7 that means that children no longer need to be nurtured, supported and treated as individuals?