To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

I have 10 children in my class with additional needs. It's not a case of not noticing them. Without diagnoses and support I cannot meet all their needs. Saying I don't notice them is as far from reality as possible.

Do you work in a school?

But could they not just have it in the coat pocket on the back of their chair or carried under their coat which is over their arm as they walk around school?

This is why absence is higher than ever... Schools are becoming harsher than prisons (which are becoming fluffier, as they realise the other route doesn't help anyone long term fit into society....) Meanwhile teachers are at breaking point, parents outraged , kids disaffected..please read manifestos carefully re education & vote wisely later this year!

Interestingly you don't place any responsibility with parents or children? Your list all relates to the school.

Yup they seem to be more interested in over zellus rules and regulations than decent education these days. We’ve had the same issues. Now home schooling 👍

It's not in the moment, no. But government neglecting to think about these things long term are part of the reason schools are like this now. There were always going to be consequences to all the Children's centres being shut down just as one example.

Absolutely but it reduces that risk. If they take the coat off at the gate etc then they'd have a job concealing a knife without someone else seeing.
I once had a lad hide a machete in his back pack. That wouldn't be solved by a stupid coat rule, but it just slightly reduces a risk, for me.

I'm convinced a lack of physical exercise is part of the problem. Just think decades ago, kids still went to school but they'd come home and hang out outdoors or with friends, ride bikes etc. Now, they come home and sit in front of screens. It's a totally unnatural way to live.

Many childrens’ additional needs are not noticed/recognised by staff, especially at secondary school when a teacher might be teaching 200 pupils a week.
As I’m sure you’re aware, there are multiple learning difficulties/disabilities which can present as being lazy/being naughty/disruptive/day dreaming etc and some staff do not realise it’s something other than the above.

This isn’t a criticism of teachers, obviously like you say, the assessment system is completely broken. But as was our own experience with our DS and many people I’ve spoken to with children with SEND, their additional needs (even sometimes with diagnoses) at secondary were often misunderstood as disruptive and dismissed as bad behaviour.

The OP @k2493 originally wrote about the over zealous rules in her child’s school. Hence why I was commenting on issues with MATS and their sometimes ridiculous systems of discipline than the parenting style of parents.

Not just wearing a coat, wearing their coat with their hood up whilst trying to advise patients. You previously agreed with a post that said no teacher should care if a child does that in the classroom.

You clearly work in a utopian school where no children wear coats for behavioural reasons. In the school I work in; a secondary comprehensive school, they do. It doesn’t mean teachers are engaging in a warped “power play”. They are trying to assert rules so actual teaching and learning can take place.

We are clearly not going to agree. 👍

I understand fully. However, if there was better funding then children could receive diagnoses in primary school when they are with teachers who know them better. As it stands now families are waiting years. I notice a child in KS1, flag that they need support, they are observed, monitored, placed on a waiting list and still don't receive either support or diagnoses while they are at primary school. I also don't have the capacity to support all of these children in my large class on my own.

But the whole reason for these rules is the falling levels of behaviour within schools.

I don't understand the parents that are harking back to the way they were taught in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. We are now 25-50 years away from that time frame and a great deal has changed in the UK since then.

People are struggling economically, socially and psychologically and public services are severely underfunded if they haven't closed down altogether. Schools have to keep operating while much of the social support system is crumbling. Parents can make constant demands while allowing their children to behave in ways that would have not been socially acceptable back in those halcyon days.

The idea that teachers are supposed to be able to cope with anything that society throws at them is ridiculous. Its clear that sometimes they are forced to deal with literal crowd control due to sheer weight of numbers.

I am not a teacher but my mother was in 1970s & 80s and it's a different world. And she worked in a deprived inner city school in London. Even then teachers were leaving in droves. I am sure understaffing and not having the staff for pastoral care means schools are forced to take extreme measures for safety.

What about the fact that's its easier to hide electronics, drugs and weapons in a coat you are wearing? I'm sure there would be hell to pay for any school if a child brought a weapon into class, God forbid he/she use it. Some of these issues are basic safety measures when you have an enormous number of teens in one building and not enough adults.

The coat thing is ridiculous

Shame students can't have a cloakroom, we used to but no doubt things would be stolen

You're the one scared of Social services. In all honesty if you really are it's because you know you're doing something wrong. We all know Social services are stretched to the limits and are not interested in ordinary telling off. Parents are a child's model so if your child is swearing at you, maybe it's because of how you talk to them. I can't figure out if you are being defensive because you know you are in the wrong or if you really don't understand the type of behaviour SS are concerned with is wrong.

And you actually believe a hood impacts ability to learn? Really.

Because you know what? There is no evidence that it has any impact at all but actually disadvantages further the disadvantaged.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8386814/

I work in school where the priority is achieving potential, wellbeing, happy productive supported students. You clearly do not.

I do not swear at my dc. I can only assume you don't have a teenage son....you are absolutely dreaming if you think only those with sweary parents go on to swear. There are plenty of amazing parents who have teenage children who partake in all sorts of behaviour which they have not seen at home. And yes if my teen does swear at me, they will be spoken to sternly. I mean I could ignore it, then he could be one of those children who goes on to make teachers lives a misery. But yes we do live in a culture where parents are reported for all sorts and these boards are full of it... whether ss are stretched or not doesn't change the fact a lot of parents are scared to tell their children off.

"And you actually believe a hood impacts ability to learn? Really."
@AnneValentine

I am currently in a vocational course with adults from 18-65. We have a uniform but can wear plain sweatshirts/cardigans which match to keep warm.
Hoodies are banned, because the lecturers found some students were hiding in them, being anti-social, not participating, etc. and this is a private institution teaching ADULTS.

So many parents of NT DC are forced to do this. I'm sure plenty see it as a win, win getting all these DC out of our state schools 😒

I hope it's not you teaching spelling.

If they are supposedly impoverished how they can afford an £800 coat?

The coat thing seems ridiculous until you teach classes full of kids wearing coats and see that it does change their behaviour for the worse.

How can you simply choose to send your DC elsewhere when the only school they'll get a place at is the catchment school and so many schools are just becoming clones of each other with these silly rules? Yes, give parents genuine choice then you might have a point!

And you think they were doing those things because they were wearing a hood up?