To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

And where is the extra money for more school buildings and where are all the well trained, experienced teachers coming from to fill these other schools that would be such a great improvement? Choice is a luxury that an overburdened, underfunded school system cannot offer.

There's a secondary school near me that is known for being extremely easy going...it is very very over subscribed. My ds knows a couple of boys who go there and he says they're the only kids he knows who don't dread school on Monday morning

I hope someone else is teaching them how to spell then.

And if you think doing those two things would solve all the problems in UK schools you would be deluded.

@AnneValentine well the institution clearly found a link as the rule was there before I arrived.

Wearing your hood up, especially oversized means it's easy to obscure your face and lecturers shouldn't be having to ask grown adults to please participate and speak clearly when someone is disrupting the learning of all the other people who have paid to be there.
Most people would read refusing to cooperate at an institution you are paying to attend hostile.

They are also training for a profession where the public come and pay while we are learning, so not only is its seen as antisocial but unprofessional.

There are plenty of other options a student can wear to stay warm.

No clothes don't cause behavior, but they enable behavior.

@Redpeonies if people on your course aren't doing the work and being antisocial etc - why aren't they just being told to leave.
A course for adults is a choice. If they don't want to be there then they should chuck em out. It surely can't just be down to wearing a sweatshirt with a hood vs a sweatshirt without one that they are pissing around. Why are they there if they don't want to be?

That was such a creepy video! It gave the impression the school could see into the girls bedroom to make sure she'd made her bed?!

Because they need bums on seats to bring money in. If they start kicking people off then they lose money. So SMT will let anyone enrol and then blame the tutors for lack of learner engagement

Schools not being supported to make decisions about issues they know (from direct experience) detract from learning is part of the problem. Why would students follow a rule or instruction if they know their parents will not support the school in decision making? It’s especially important that parents model following rules at a time of life where natural development means students will even question guidelines imposed for their own safety or wellbeing.

@twistyizzy but why would adults even sign up for a course that they aren't interested in and don't want to do?

Of course they would be asked to leave, that hasn't happened because everyone (in my class at least) is delightful and motivated. The point is this is one of many behaviors the institution has linked to not wanting to be there or do the work.

It's laid out in the handbook we sign along with all the other registration documentation.

So people who are determined to wear a hoddie everyday can self-select out and train elsewhere.

Lol it happens all the time, that's why the retention rate for Apprenticeships sits around 55%. People sign up but don't actually want to do the work. They want the piece of paper just handing over to them without deserving it.
I have worked in FE for 25 years and it was ever thus but has reduced significantly over the last 5 years.

But as a private institution and as grown adults they can eject those that are demotivated or disruptive.

This can't happen in most state schools and somehow the teachers are expected to deal with a large number of students who don't want to be there or even enjoy being disruptive. With parents who always blame the teachers such as suggesting it's "torture" for students who have already been in trouble for serious infractions to actually sit quietly and do their work in a room away from the other students they are disrupting.

Comedycook What is this easy going school please?

My children went to a high school with no uniform and no dress code. If you wanted to rock a purple Mohawk it was fine. I don't think they had any rules about coats. A large proportion of their students went on to university and their exam results were fine. In NZ though, not the UK. I suppose they saved a lot of time not having a dress code to enforce.

1. correlation doesn’t mean causation.

2. there is no evidenced link. Uniform and compliance with clothing is a social construct that has elitist roots and nearly always disadvantage the disadvantaged.

3. wearing a hood in no way disrupts the learning of others unless the person “in charge” chooses to prioritise that over the teaching. That is a teacher issue.

4. there is a strong link between head coverings as is described here and Sen and mental health issues. Rather than issuing blanket orders understanding why should be a priority.

5. it’s astonishing to me that as fee payers and therefore the people who are literally paying your salary you think you have any rights to dictate attire.

6. no it doesn’t.

I think it’s extremely important that our young people grow up with minds of their own and actually feeling comfortable to question authority and yes, sometimes saying no, if they feel they’re being wronged.

Of course there has to be some rules but they need to be proportionate and in many uk secondary schools, many rules clearly are not proportionate.

Take my DC’s old secondary for example - in summer when it was boiling hot and the kids were sweltering, no mater how old, they had to put their hand up and ask permission to remove their blazer! How on Earth is that preparing them for real life - making them responsible for their own well-being and body?
It’s crazy bonkers. And if they forgot to ask and just removed it?
Instant detention. No warning, nothing. Detention!

Do these kids leave school knowing how to manage relationships, understand what compound interest is, know how to create a vegetable garden, how to hem trousers etc…..actually useful things? Most likely no.

@Midnightgrey New Zealand has 5.2 million people.

The population of London alone is estimated to be 9.740 million in 2023.

The population in London increased 99,923 just in the past year.

Yes, but in you Ur example it was your parents mollycoddling you, imagine how worse it would have been if school was like that too. As you said, some never learnt.

An over-reaction to extremely permissive parenting.

@AnneValentine Feel free to teach classes in a school with 1500 teenage pupils that was built for 750.

If you are doing so successfully it would be great if would share your advice for this achievement with others.

Yes amazingly when you pay to receive a professional license which involves hundreds of hours of training there are in fact professional requirements of dress and behavior. It's also a contractual agreement to receive your training which you are free to refuse to sign and go elsewhere.

In a secure mental health unit you don't have drawers with knifes available to the patients.

We’ve had an email today reminding us that our children need coats. There’s nowhere to put them when they’re there anyway! And they’re weighed down with their other stuff anyway!

@twistyizzy

Can totally relate to what you are saying

Also a correlation with parents losing benefits if their dc is not in education

You know as soon as I pressed send I thought some bigot will pick up on that 😂