To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

At my ds school they have isolation where they sit in silence in one room for the entire day...this is if they skip a detention or commit a serious infringement of the rules.

Now my view is this...we have abolished corporal punishment... thankfully. We don't want to see a return to that...but is what we have replaced it with any better. Ok we're not inflicting physical pain on the kids but sitting I silence in one room for six hours is surely like some sort of psychological torture. Why do we view physical chastisement as being so awful yet psychological chastisement as being fine?

Completely agree. Some parents expect their DC to all of a sudden make good decisions when they've not spent time supporting them to make decisions!

The problem is what is the alternative?
Schools don't have enough teaching staff yet alone pastoral staff. How would you deal with these kids without the staff to supervise more personal interactions?
Some of these kids shouldn't even be in mainstream school but there aren't enough specialist schools to take them so how do you suggest mainstream schools deal with them?
I agree with you FYI but just saying "it isn't acceptable" doesn't solve the problem.

..."this is if they skip a detention or commit a serious infringement of the rules."

So what do you suggest for children who don't turn up for detention and commit a serious infringement of the rules?

What about all the children that are trying to learn and concentrate while kids are being disruptive and disobedient?

We had rules like this when I was at school in the 1970s.
In fact we had some really strict rules back then such as, no talking until spoken to, walking single file (no running allowed) in the corridors and to stand up when the headteacher entered the room. We certainly couldn't leave the classroom during lessons for loo visits or any other reason, we wouldn't dare ask.

Fast forward to now, schools are much more noisy, discipline is sometimes out of control and the school staff look constantly stressed trying to manage kids' behaviour. I can well understand why headteachers are imposing these measures.

There’s a way around it - as their parent, write to school (so you have an evidence trail) and describe the unfairness and why your son won’t be doing detentions if they relate to ridiculous and unachievable pyramid-type discipline regimes!
Explain as you have here in very simple terms so they can read it and see how stupid it is!

Unless parents actually do something in high enough numbers, schools will be micromanaging and hyper-focussing on ridiculous behaviour issues that don’t exist, instead of actually teaching kids important things.

Thank goodness my kiddos have now both left the uk schooling system because it’s really not fit for purpose!

180 days of rain on average - and a lot very heavy.

I think they learn wet and cold is uncomfortable very quickly.

I think strict rules around almost all aspects of behaviour in schools has one principal cause - v challenging and disruptive behaviour largely supported or condoned by some parents. Schools now know that they cannot rely on some parents to manage their children or to work with schools and other services to manage them.

Schools are also picking up issues that other services used to offer support with
Police - too ovr stretched to deal with incidents outside school so school deal with them
Social care - inadequate parenting is not seen as a social care issue unless there is serious physical or sexual abuse.
Mental health - camhs not accepting cases or placing on long wait lists. Schools expected to support and offer counselling to children with mental health issues.
Send - huge rise in ND referrals and diagnoses. Schools in some areas being asked to start referrals taking this out of the hands of primary care. Lack of funds to support these children. Difficulty recruiting TAs due to poor pay and conditions.

This is why a lot of parents (especially of ND children), are questioning whether sending their kids into that kind of environment every day is the best thing for them.
There are some excellent online school out there - yes, they cost £££ - but they are cheaper than going private and more suited to children that need flexibility.
I've been reading a few articles recently about how parents no longer respect the "contract" between parents and school, and how absences have increased significantly since covid. The contract works both ways. So many of our state schools are no longer fit for purpose - cramming thousands of kids into schools built for half the number and restricting budgets to the point where they can't even maintain the facilities means they need to be run more like prisons that educational institutions just to maintain order.

It allows the other children in the class to learn without disruption for a day.

Thing is in my dc school isolation isn't reserved for serious infringements. They get them for minor things such as not being behind the chair at the time of the bell for example, they have 5 mins to get from one lesson to another.

If a child is disruptive, I'd imagine the absolute worst thing for them is to be made to sit in silence for six hours. I'd suggest part of the problem is they're fizzing with energy and no outlet.

You'd be surprised at what warrants a day in internal isolation. It more often than not is not disruptive behaviour.

Parents are part of the problem though. They want schools to have rules until those rules apply to their precious DC and then they complain!
They don't want other kids disrupting lessons but then when their child is placed in isolation for constant disruptions they kick off.

The teachers who got the most out of pupils at all of my 3 schools (we had middle schools) in the 80’s/90’s, were the ones who spoke and behaved towards the children like loving parents. I don’t mean zero discipline, I mean fairness and explanation and doing away with unnecessary red-tape rules that just wound up the kids. Both parties respected each other.

Those without doubt, were the best teachers we all loved and behaved brilliantly for.

If kids are kicking off in lessons and being disruptive, it’s because they’re not feeling engaged or there are barriers to their accessing of the lesson.

I'm not a teacher, but I have a feeling that if everyone was made to spend one day in an average school, we'd all be calling for stricter rules to stop the chaos!

So it's the teacher's fault?

This thread is sooo depressing.......our kids are in a grammar school in Northern Ireland and while there are rules it's nothing like this.. years of Tory influence on education and the increase in MATs seems to have driven education to the edge. How can it be improved ?

Isolation is actually sitting in a classroom with a few other kids and a teacher doing your work quietly. You have breaks and can speak to the teacher if you need help. It is not exactly torture. I am always struck by how parents mainly want their child to be
In top sets or certainly sets where everyone is respectful and wants to learn
In the school with the best results
In the school where the kids are not fighting or bullying others
In the school where the lessons are rigorous and challenging
In the school which has a calm atmosphere

They will move house or do whatever they can to achieve this and avoid so called rough schools. The rough schools usually have weaker sanctions, higher deprivation rates.

Yet they expect these things to happen without rules and consequences.

I like a strict school and I like a strong head who doesn't blow with the prevailing wind of parental opinion. I want a head who is confident in what they're doing

I also don't think you can successfully run a school of 1500 teenagers without a dictatorship style approach.

Ah right so it is the fault of the teacher then? No responsibility on the shoulders of the kids?
THIS is the issue. Kids misbehave and teachers get the blame.
So what did our NDN do wrong to get threatened with a knife as a teacher? That must have been his fault?

Try teaching in an average state school for 1 week then come back and tell me that you still think it is because the teachers aren't trying to engage the kids.

It’s a combination of many things….

Lack of engaging lesson content
Staff not noticing children with additional needs - school SEND depts woefully underfunded & county SEND depts inundated and so assessment system backed up
Too many cover lesson supervisors

Verbena77
28 kids behaving well and enjoying learning. One refuses to work and disrupts the learning of others. They do this in most lessons. All the teachers are shit? Or this child has an issue with their behaviour. This child kicks off at home regularly shouting at their parent. They get into fights with other kids on the way to and from school. Hmm?? Yes you must be right the boring lessons must be the issue. Let's also remember there is a curriculum that the kids need to be taught to pass their GCSE. Perhaps analysing poetry isn't to the child's taste but it is the job if the teacher to teach children to pass their exams.