To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

No such thing as pegs in secondary. Also, my son isn't allowed into the class unless the teacher is already there and waiting

No socialising, no chatting, they've become a joyless misery and the UK education system is failing BADLY

I guess it's very difficult these days, in the old days you stepped out of line you got the cane, you didn't dare misbehave and if you did get in trouble at school you also got it in the neck when you got home as well.

These days it's so incredibly difficult for schools to discipline children and also it's not just the children it's the parents, my little Jimmy is an angel he doesn't do any wrong when in actual fact little Jimmy is a right royal pain in the arse and nobody can learn because he's being so disruptive. It's a fine line. Unfortunately due to the few many have to suffer and it's sad.

Poor diddums not being allowed to wear coats whenever they like. Yes it is disruptive when kids amble into lessons with coats on, hoods up like they are just going out for a winter walk. Lessons should be about learning, being prepared shouldn’t take 10-15 minutes off the lesson time. Oh - but it’s the teachers fault for not making the lesson “engaging “, hard to do that when kids are dressed for outdoors, fail to bring the books, equipment needed and generally don’t give a stuff. There should be no need for kids to be in outdoor wear indoors in a stuffy classroom. It’s almost never so cold you’d have to wear coats/ hats / gloves inside, if it was that cold they should be sent home. Yes the big coats are used as a cover for phone messaging, vape hiding and the rest.

The coats thing is bonkers, I'd quit a job if I was made to remove my coat in a similar fashion.

I work at a local SENDiass service. The bulk of what we do is currently dealing with the fall out of insane policies. 95% of the culprit schools in our LA belong to one of two MATs. We are literally having children perm exed over minor infractions.

The approach just does not work.

I think primary school in the UK is really well done. My ds loved primary school...but he hates secondary. He even said to me "I used to love learning, now I hate it" 😥

I frequently think about going to school in the 70’s when our skirts were short and everyone including male teachers had long hair.
We were perfectly able to learn and progress regardless. All of these ridiculous rules are only affecting the pupils who naturally follow the rules, the others won’t give a fig.

I know a lot of other schools have particular trousers the girls have to wear which do not fit. Luckily, DD can wear any school trousers so can wear the loose, comfy jersey ones.

Haven't RTWT, but I'm gob-smacked by this. Don't schools have cloakrooms any more?

Ted Wragg by any chance?!

They have them in Primary schools just not most secondaries.

However 90s secondary we didn't have them or lockers and we used to commute in via bus and carry everything all day.

My DC, like many wear, T-shirt or thermals under shirts and have cagoule or umbrellas that can be shoved easily into bags - and on very cold days thicker coats, gloves and scarves that still go into bags.

Not all teens are like that, though, mine certainly isn't!

She can report all she likes! Social Services clearly wouldn't be interested.

How do these sorts of zero tolerance, no excuse type schools handle ND children? Not very well, I'm assuming.

I'm all for clamping down hard on low-level disruption, because it makes such a bigger difference to learning than most children (and possibly parents) realise. But falling out with kids about genuinely innocuous things like coats in the corridors, or the exact colour of socks, seems entirely counterproductive to me.

(context: I teach in a fairly relaxed, middle sized, town school. No kids are bringing knives to my school. If the kids come into the classroom wearing coats we just say "come on guys, coats off please". If they refuse or argue back, then that's the point at which it would be escalated as an actual issue.)

I agree to an extent, except even with the Paul Dix approach, primary PERM EX and suspensions has risen massively too.

High need pupils, breakdown at home, lack of support for families, lack of rules and expectations at home, screen time, poor language….a real mix of reasons.

Eh!? So you think it’s okay for a child to be sat with their hood up in class whilst learning? Would you go into a bank and expect the cashier to be doing that? Would you go to the GP and be happy for them to be doing that? It’s basic common courtesy and manners to be dressed and ready to learn (or work) in an appropriate way.

Perhaps you should question your own sanity and not teachers. You are just looking for something to pick fault with. Demonising teachers and schools in a nit picking pathetic way.

Academies seem to the worst for this. My eldest was a good smart kid but utterly crushed at secondary. Left with great grades and utterly fucked MH.

He never wore a coat.

in contrast his brother is at a private SEN school where behaviour is by nature more funky. The teachers are chummy with the kids, my son told me he can’t even understand how kids can be depressed. Unfortunately his school is extremely unique. Finding the right school for the right kid is hard when all local schools sit under one academy chain. The son at Sen school still gets endless consequences but they do let creativity and uniqueness go.

The population has boomed since the 1970s. This school is a good example, it's managing twice the amount of kids than it was built for. Safety has probably become a much bigger issue, and the logistics of making sure they know where all the kids are.

In the 1970s, although the economy was difficult, socially the country was more stable. The parents of kids in the 1970s were born in the 30s, 40s and 50s, they had different societal expectations. People's fashions may have relaxed but most people were still being raised by their two biological parents and there was still a strong sense of community in most of the country. Kids played outside most of the time.
There were no distractions from the internet, phones, gaming, 24/7 porn all accessible to kids.

Now there are families who haven't had stability for 3 generations. Lots of blended families, ingrained problems, parents who have a very different attitude and level of respect toward teachers. Kids often don't have much extended family or people to turn to with problems.

Some of the most simple things in life in the 1970s can't be taken for granted anymore. Kids come to school with complex problems, many with no attention span and parents (wehther one or two) who have to work full-time. Teachers are expected to pick up the slack.
The result is many schools are overwhelmed, short staffed and underfunded and staff morale is low.

YANBU.
Local academy do this.
Dd had a breakdown a few years ago because of this approach with a new HT of said academy. 5/6 years on we’re seeing tentative signs of recovery.
Same academy trust has one of the worst track records for exclusions and managing out SN children.

If you treat children like criminals they’ll end up responding and behaving like criminals. It’s honestly like the whole system has lost sight of what children need!

We aren't an academy yet but all the secondary schools around here tend to be joining Athena Academy and the rules are all very similar.

The whole country has lost sight of what children need and the schools reflect this.

Would I think a GP wearing a coat was less able to do their job? Absolutely not. Schools are cold. Unless there is a health and safety risk that means it’s not appropriate I honestly couldn’t care less if the person is doing their job.

I work in a school as a side note and this is not something the vast majority of teaching or other staff would get remotely annoyed by. The few kids that do it are either cold or there is something else going on. They can’t use it as “f you” if you aren’t engaging in some warped power play.

I'm amazed anyone wears a coat! It's very unusual at my son's school. No one wears a jumper either - the boys are still wearing short sleeved shirts and blazer. Rain, snow, or sunshine.

Absolutely!

And as someone else said, detentions become meaningless. If you are going to get a detention for forgetting a pen or telling a teacher to fuck off, you may as well tell a teacher to fuck off. There is nothing proportionate about 2 hour detentions.

I was speaking to a parent friend last week, her DD's school has a 2 minute rules. The DD can't cope with the corridor (autistic) so would walk the long way round the building and arrive a minute or two after. School won't make any adjustment at all as an OT hasn't stated she has an issue with the hallway. She has been getting 2 hour detentions every single day and this is now moving to internal isolation with a threat to move to fixed term exclusions.

It's bad in and outside school for a lot of children
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/28/childhoods-have-got-worse-in-britain-survey-reveals