Leaving 10 year son in cafes

[shineyhappypeople78]

What do people think about this? Do you leave your 10 year olds alone in cafes for an hour+ at a time, with no phone or means to contact you, or anyone. In a large city, not a village cafe where everyone knows you and your family.

Children's dad has them every other weekend for daytime contact only, and once during the week after school. There is an ongoing family court case which has currently stopped overnight contact due to concerns based about neglect. Part of which was based on him leaving 10 year old who has ADHD and waiting for autism assessment, alone in the caravan he lives in.

He is now leaving our son in cafes when he has him. He gives him an ipad and he plays games and watches Youtube videos on his own. He's mentioned it a few times and I've asked my son if he's ok with it, but he's the sort of boy who masks a lot and he just says things like, "well i can talk to my friends on Discord so its fine" but it does seem to be bothering him. He has ADHD so being allowed to game without boundaries is a massive draw for him, almost like an addiction, he can't see through. When i asked him the last time before he left to be with him if he was ok with being left alone in different cafes, he burst into tears and said "Why doesn't daddy want me around?". To highlight I only ever ask casually and say things like can you order your own food and drink if you're hungry, and make a joke about how cool is that.

I suppose my question is firstly is this safe? I would never dream of doing it, but I hardly ever leave him alone at home and if I do only for maximum half an hour whilst I nip to the shops, and always in daytime. He's been leaving him for hours, and also in the dark, 4-6pm after school last week....Whilst he goes and does stuff with the younger one...He is also quite immature for his age, and very innocent, easily led, a dopamine miner (ADHD, autism).. I just dont feel comfortable but before I try and face this latest issue I just want to know what other parents think?

This.

This is total neglect. Leaving a vulnerable 10 year old out in public with NO means of communication is absolutely not on. What planet does his father live on to think it's remotely acceptable? I would be livid about this. Your son deserves far better.

The father is presuming he will go to a member of staff in the cafe if he has issues.

The absolute risks are probably very low, but it's terrible terrible parenting. Why the hell does father even want contact if he's going to behave like that

He leaves him alone in cafes?

Unsupervised on discord?

Abso-fucking-lutely not.

I'd refuse to let him go, make notes if every time this has happened and let ex take you to court, when you can cite neglect.

That's shocking

Members of staff are not childminders - and that is presuming the lad would even approach them if he had an issue. I'm horrified by this type of parenting. Why is the father even bothering. Wrong, wrong, wrong on many levels.

Unfortunately some shitty parents expect staff doing their jobs to also look after their children.

There is nothing misleading about my comment at all. You started focussing on the fact that he may be robbed and that's not the main issue here at all! I cannot believe all this back and forth on this thread, it's a very serious issue. Your poor son has already asked why his useless father doesn't want him! And he knows how long he's being left on his own, in a cafe too. I do, however, notice that you only focus on replying to certain comments. And none of the ones where people have said you shouldn't be sending him! Speaks volumes to me! I hope it all works out ok for your sons sake..

Many schools allow year 3's to walk home alone from school so age 7 plus. Not letting children until age 11 is ridiculous.

@DragonFly98 I don't know where you are but the schools here won't allow children to walk home alone until the final term of Y5 at the earliest. The Head agreed with me that my own DD would not even be allowed home alone at the end of Y6 due to ADHD.

Not safe at all. He is putting him at risk. Please stop this.

No it's not ok.

um @MoonWoman69 what exactly does it say about me?! I’d be very interested to know what you are implying exactly. Im replying on my phone whilst doing other things, I haven’t seen the whole thread at once. If I have the time - or inclination - I will respond to everyone. Why would I respond to people saying “don’t send your child”?! That’s just slightly ridiculous if you’re in the middle of court proceedings with an enforceable court order in place. Please don’t make this about you, or me. It’s just madness.

My main concern would be the cafe staff ask him to leave if he had been there a while and presumably not keeping buying drinks or food

I'm in no way making this about me! You have been told more than once, not to send your son! Carry on doing "you", I really don't feel inclined to argue with someone who should know that this whole situation is wrong, without having to ask a bunch of strangers on a forum. Good evening to you and good luck

I hope this isn't true.

OP, if you are a trained social worker, as you say, presumably you do not need to ask strangers on a forum.

You would surely also know that, if your son's Dad is still doing this after you / your solicitors have told him not to (-you've done that, right?), you breach and file a C2 for an urgent hearing for variation of interim arrangements to secure safe interim arrangements for your children such as supported contact with someone else present, whose judgment you trust.

@MoonWoman69 please don’t comment on posts you know literally nothing about. I have stopped contact which is why and my child are in this position! If you knew anything about court orders and family court you would know I can’t just stop contact without a reasonable reason!! Honestly please stop spouting rubbish. 🙏

@GruffaIo trained not practising. And that’s precisely why I’m asking a bunch of strangers on a forum because it provides the best accuracy in terms of the court and Cafcass opinions. If you are a social worker you will 100% know that it very rarely happens “by the book”. All of the above has ALREADY taken place! Again, I’m not asking for legal or procedural advice. I’m asking if other parents leave their children in cafes for hours alone. I don’t and no one I knows does but that is a subjective opinion - we are normal educated people who love are children and look after them properly. With all due respect not everyone is.

Strangers on the internet cannot tell you what Cafcass or a Judge (or Lay Bench) will consider safe. Context is everything and only Cafcass and the court will know the context.

If you and your solicitors consider it is not safe, you have given the Dad a chance to fix it and he hasn't, the matter has to go back to court. You need to breach and either file a C2 for an urgent hearing if there is only an interim order or C110A if there is already a final order.

If you do not consider it safe and do not act, you can be criticised for this by both Cafcass and the court.

They are unlikely to kick out alone child below the age of 13/14 who has been left on their own.

They wouldn't want to be blamed and get bad publicity if the child then comes to harm.

However there is nothing stopping them banning the father and his children from their premises in future.

The OP is worried about being accused of parental alienation or similar

Unfortunately in rl I find that too many adults in professional positions that deal with children have little knowledge of what social media, apps and sites are actual and potential sources of grooming.

Adhd has an average age adjustment for executive function of 30%- so it’s like leaving a 6-7 year old.

If they were concerned about him being out alone, then they would more likely call the police as they could be just as concerned that they might be held accountable if anything happened to the child in their premises. They may also not know his age and may not have seen the father to start with so think he arrived alone.
I'm surprised a cafe would be happy with anyone sitting for that length of time.

This. Clearly it's upsetting him as he thinks his dad doesn't want him around. The emotional neglect is just as concerning as the physical neglect.

There's some right pricks on this thread.

Sounds to me like your 10yo shouldn't be left alone in cafés for long periods OP.

Will the family court ask your DS for his opinion or do they not do that?

Poor you
Your poor boy

You are trying to find the right way to navigate an impossible and often unfair system. Balancing worrying about your boy with going in too strong with the family court and being accused of parental alienation.

You clearly love your boy and want him with you and you want to keep him safe and not lose him altogether by the court accusing you of parental alienation.

Your thread is a way to canvass opinion so you can get a baseline before you approach cafcass. It seems a sensible approach.

Yes this is neglect and I am sorry you are in this situation.