Leaving 10 year son in cafes

[shineyhappypeople78]

What do people think about this? Do you leave your 10 year olds alone in cafes for an hour+ at a time, with no phone or means to contact you, or anyone. In a large city, not a village cafe where everyone knows you and your family.

Children's dad has them every other weekend for daytime contact only, and once during the week after school. There is an ongoing family court case which has currently stopped overnight contact due to concerns based about neglect. Part of which was based on him leaving 10 year old who has ADHD and waiting for autism assessment, alone in the caravan he lives in.

He is now leaving our son in cafes when he has him. He gives him an ipad and he plays games and watches Youtube videos on his own. He's mentioned it a few times and I've asked my son if he's ok with it, but he's the sort of boy who masks a lot and he just says things like, "well i can talk to my friends on Discord so its fine" but it does seem to be bothering him. He has ADHD so being allowed to game without boundaries is a massive draw for him, almost like an addiction, he can't see through. When i asked him the last time before he left to be with him if he was ok with being left alone in different cafes, he burst into tears and said "Why doesn't daddy want me around?". To highlight I only ever ask casually and say things like can you order your own food and drink if you're hungry, and make a joke about how cool is that.

I suppose my question is firstly is this safe? I would never dream of doing it, but I hardly ever leave him alone at home and if I do only for maximum half an hour whilst I nip to the shops, and always in daytime. He's been leaving him for hours, and also in the dark, 4-6pm after school last week....Whilst he goes and does stuff with the younger one...He is also quite immature for his age, and very innocent, easily led, a dopamine miner (ADHD, autism).. I just dont feel comfortable but before I try and face this latest issue I just want to know what other parents think?

Why is he in the cafe? Is he ordering food and using headphones? Your ex sounds fucking useless, hope you get it sorted.

@ZenNudist At 10 all kids near me transferred to high school so took buses, walked or ride bikes, quite normal. They walked to primary from 8 alone. You need to build independence

I would raise from the point of the impact to your son rather than whether it's neglectful.

What's the point in having him after school if he's not spending time with him... it has upset your DS and his opinion at 10 should count.

It is a safeguarding issue in my view, even though ten yrs can be pretty savvy, his emotional and mental well-being are more at risk here, I feel.

Given what you have explained the purpose of your question, I’ll further explain my thoughts. I probably wouldn’t have said some of it otherwise, but given it might be helpful I’ll put it all down (although will probably come under fire for it).

My first thoughts were that context is everything. If he’s being left in eg a David Lloyd cafe while younger sibling is at a swimming lesson and Dad can see him, or pop pack to see him every 20 minutes … that’s a very different thing to being left in a random city centre greasy spoon while his dad drives off to an unknown location miles away.

His reaction of “why doesn’t dad want me” did seem to be prompted by your line of questioning (sorry!), particularly given you had to push for it, and his initial responses were all that he seems happy. (Obviously him being happy about it doesn’t mean it isn’t neglect).

You seem very sure of his ND. It might be helpful to get a diagnosis because it can (sorry!!!) come across as bit PFB/helicopter-parent that he says he is happy but he is so good at masking etc. And saying he is a “dopamine miner” etc can come across as you just being the other end of the parenting spectrum to your ex WRT screentime and devices.

I hope that might in some way help OP, given the purpose of your question. I don’t mean any of it to be unkind, just to help you get the other perspectives that you say you need for the court.

Did you give your vulnerable 10 year old access to discord so she could be easily groomed too?

I don’t necessarily think it’s unsafe for a 10-year-old to be in a cafe alone for an hour, although clearly it would be preferable if he at least had a phone in case there was a problem. I can imagine it being something you might resort to if you had a distressing medical appointment or something that you couldn’t take them to, or even if you had some very dull shopping to do that your kid would hate. Or if their sibling has a swimming lesson or something.

But for someone who only has limited time with their child, it seems really shitty to regularly leave them on their own in Starbucks for no apparent reason, especially if the child isn’t entirely comfortable with it.

I also think it’s potentially unfair on the cafe staff, as if something were to happen then they’d inevitably have to deal with it given that your son doesn’t have a phone with which to call his dad.

I used to work in a fast food shop and we used to have parents leave their children there while they went off to shop in the rest of the shopping centre.

Every time we would have to call security who would make their own decision whether or not to call the police as it was often deemed child abandonment.

NT or not, I'd never leave a child that age alone in public somewhere that wasn't designated as some sort of child care.

I understand why you'd do that for a 5 year old but for a 10 year old that's a complete overreaction.

We just called security as we had an unaccompanied minor left on our premises. It was shopping centre policy.

Security are the ones who called the police if necessary, but fortunately that was very rare as the parents always ended up going back there to pick up their children. Police were only ever called if the parents never came back for their child.

Um @zigzag716746zigzag a lot of that is incorrect. I wasn’t questioning him but it’s good to hear other people misinterpretations as that makes it clearer for me to understand what I’m up against and what could come up. I definitely didn’t “push” for anything and zero idea how you’ve got that. As a parent of a child who has experienced domestic abuse and a trained social worker i know well enough how to speak to my son without leading him on questions. Very very aware. I did not go further into the detail but he had terrible nightmares last night and woke up apprehensive and clearly frightened. He brought it up, not me. I always ask how he feels about anything first. Get his opinion. Accusations of Parental alienation is fairly rife in the Family Court so I’m doubly careful to never lead my child on anything to do with his dad. He’s an anxious child due to early childhood trauma. He has an adhd diagnosis thank you and the consultant has re-referred for autism. I think it’s unfair and misleading to misquote me on my own post tbh. It then sets other posters up for responding to inaccurate facts. Thanks for your insights though as it’s all very helpful, wherever you sit with it. No I’m not talking about leaving for 5 minutes. The reason I know is the parent of the child he is gaming with whilst being left alone. 🙏 ☺️

OP, is there a reason why you are not saying what your ex is doing while leaving your child alone in a café? Presumably it’s because you don’t know what he is up to? What age is your younger child, can he tell you what they have been doing, so you get an idea of why and for how long your older child is being left alone?

WTF! I wouldn't leave a NT 10 year old in a cage alone let alone an ND one! Both my children are ND, both very different, and wouldn't let either alone indoors or outdoors that length of time (15&11)

Good god, no!

Well, I did say I’d come under fire for it, just didn’t expect it to be from you given you were asking for the input 🙄Never mind. I hope it was helpful to you anyway. I’m sure you realise that there is no way for people to know information you don’t put in your posts. I certainly wasn’t trying to mislead anyone, and not sure what you mean by misquoting you.

Poor kid. No, I don't think it's appropriate to leave any 10 year old alone in a cafe, the fact that his neurodivergence makes him more vulnerable makes it even worse.

He is not equipped to be able to handle anything that goes wrong, he is vulnerable to theft and predation, vulnerable to wandering off and getting lost/into further problems, vulnerable to whoever on the internet because that's being entirely unsupervised...

I wouldn't leave a 10 year old alone in a cafe like that. It's negligence.
Also why on earth does he want contact with him if he isn't spending time with him. Your poor son

I was always very relaxed as a parent when my children were young,but absolutely no way would I leave a 10 year old in a cafe for an hour! One thing for them to go to local shop,bus to town with friends but sitting in a cafe would be awful even if NT .

When he leaves his son in the cafe, is he leaving him but taking his younger brother to do stuff elsewhere? It's an absolute no from me I would stop contact, abandoning one child to be with another child is absolutely unforgivable

@zigzag716746zigzag would really prefer to keep this on topic if possible rather than making it about me or you. Noone is firing on you and I said thank you for your insights as it does honestly help. I know my child and I know as a child with ADHD and diagnosed as such by an NHS Consultant that he is a "dopamine miner" it is slang for a person who searches out dopamine. It is just fact. So if he is allowed to game for long periods of time, even if it's in a city centre cafe where he would not ordinarily be able to sit even with me for long periods of time (as its noisy, too much happening, too many strangers etc etc), he is "masking" as he is putting his love of gaming over his feelings of safety. That is typical and usual behaviour for a child with ADHD, well anyone with ADHD. And its probably why he woke up multiple times last night screaming. This happens when he feels unsafe. Honestly everything is fine, please don't take offence, it makes Mumsnet hard to interact with when it gets all weird.

@Seven7seven , yes he's going elsewhere with the younger one to do chores, laundry. Yesterday he left him in another town cafe and went to the storage unit outside, about a 15 minute drive to get furniture to then take to his nephew. This would have taken a minimum of an hour, probably more like two, which is what my son said. He has a watch and is very specfic and slightly OCD about time.

@AlohaRose no sorry, I just hadn't seen your post on my phone. yes he's going elsewhere with the younger one who is year 1 to do chores, laundry, see people. Yesterday he left him in another town cafe and went to the storage unit outside, about a 15 minute drive, to unpack and get furniture to then take to his nephew's flat. This would have taken a minimum of an hour, probably more like two, which is what my son said. He has a watch and is very specfic and slightly OCD about time.

Not read full thread. I would not leave my 10 year old alone in a cafe - and I even feel uncomfortable letting them visit public toilets alone (ever since a friend (involved with management at a large shopping mall-type place) mentioned there had been a case where an 11year old had been assaulted by an adult in one of the public toilets there (this is going back a long time though).

Hey @DragonFly98 is it ok to stay on topic. He does walk to and from school and will do when he goes to secondary, sometimes with friends, sometimes alone, he does also play out around the corner from our house with his 5 year old sibling, so Im definitely not a helicopter parent on this score, I wish they could all play out more with each other. I think the main issue here is a) hes clearly not ok with it and b) sitting in a cafe with an ipad alone seems quite vulnerable for a 10 year old, feels like its different from walking or playing outside. Anyone could come up and pinch it and he would have no idea what to do. I would have no idea what to do if that happened to me, in the immediate. Thank you for your insights.

I'm very puzzled why he didn't take both children with him to do these errands. And that makes me think he might not be doing what he says he is. Is the younger child young enough that they wouldn't realise if something untoward was going on?

1. He's clearly a twat.
2. Why is he choosing to do all these things when he's supposed to be having his children? If anyone asked him for a favour, his automatic response should be "Sorry, can't mate, I've got my kids".
3. Why are you asking on here and not contacting social services or your solicitor?
4. I feel sorry for your son, who has a father that can't be bothered and a mother that has to ask complete strangers on the www, whether this all sounds right to them!!!

No, it is not ok to leave a vulnerable ADHD/possibility autistic 10 year old in caravan/cafes on his own, never mind half an hour, for however long! I can't believe you even have to ask!
Your son clearly knows his time scales and he is quite aware that he is being abandoned! Poor lad. Why the hell are you not putting your energies into stopping access with his useless shit of a father, instead of posting on here?! Or is it the case that his being with his father, no matter what happens when he's there, is giving you freedom that you don't want to relinquish?!
I'd rather have him under my charge and give up my freedom if it meant he was safe and felt cared for!

I'm sorry, but if you don't like the answer, don't ask the question!!! Unbelievable!