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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours say they can only 'try' to control their child.

747 replies

sleeplessnights24 · 02/01/2024 23:50

I live in a new build. Everything has been ok, but the tenants upstairs have a 5 year old boy who doesn't stop stomping.

Running in the afternoon/normal hours is one thing, but this is in the early hours when people are clearly still asleep! It also happens in the middle of the night too...?! Surely a 5 year old can sleep through the night...? Also, why run if you're up that late?!

I noted the hours it happened. 5:30am, 5:40am, 6:30am - and weirdly 12:30am, 1:20am and 4:20am too. That's just in the last 3 weeks. On weekends it started at 6:50am and 5:40am. We are not just talking about brief periods of noise. It is often intermittent. The worst was 3:50am - which was intermittent until about 4:20am. Then again at 5:20am. Then at 7:30am. That night I didn't sleep at all since 3:50am.

Initially, all communications were fine. I only spoke up once I was at my wits end. I was polite - and so were they. No apology from their side though. They said they'd be mindful of the noise. Phew! I was grateful and hopeful to finally be able to sleep. I do not expect to live in silence (obviously), but stomping on your ceiling - when you're trying to sleep and it is still dark outside, is crazy.

A few months goes by... nothing changes. But because I had already complained once, I felt like I couldn't complain again... until I did.

Again, all polite from both sides. Said they'd be mindful. Ok.
Nothing changed again. Rinse & repeat. The noise - if anything - just got louder... so I spoke up again. Both sides nice and polite. They said it was 'confusing' that it was so loud. I asked multiple times if they'd like to come down and hear it for themselves as they didn't understand how it could be so disruptive. They ignored every invite to come listen.

They would say he 'only walks' on days I would be woken up in the morning - by running. They were/are defensive and looking for excuses. I get it. In many ways, I am not surprised. They kept saying they were 'being mindful' - but nothing ever changed. If the noise had reduced by 20% since I complained; at least that would be something. But there was literally no change.

I was transparent about having Bose headphones, white noise machines, etc... so they could see that I was doing things to drown out the noise from my side.

After 18 months of it happening on an almost daily basis, I complained to my building management Co. I had complained to management before - but their response was 'there's nothing we can do'. They didn't even pass on my sentiments to the owners of the flat.

This time I didn't relent - and asked them to pass/forward my email to the actual owners of the apartment upstairs. (Upstairs are renters). They did indeed forward my email to the owners.

I got a response saying the owners had spoken to their tenants - and the tenants have agreed to buy a rug and will 'try to control the movements of their child when possible'.

I took this as somewhat helpful - and was more angry that I was proven right in that what they'd done for the year prior - was nothing at all - certainly in terms of practical measures when they had told me there was nothing more they could do. Over the 18 months; there was one occasion where I (politely) asked what they had done to mitigate the noise... they didn't respond. (They have hardwood floors throughout).

For 8 weeks, they seemed to promptly stop the running in the middle of the night/early hours (which I only wanted stopped at unreasonable hours anyway) - but now we are back to square one it seems. I'm mindful of it being Winter (dark and awful weather outside) and also Christmas season, but I'm not sure why it keeps happening. They say the best they can do is 'try' to control it.

AIBU for not relenting and to keep complaining to management? The tenants have stopped opening my messages now.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 03/01/2024 09:17

sprigatito · 02/01/2024 23:52

I sympathise, but they are probably having a rough time with a hyperactive child who doesn't sleep much. Short of tying him up, what can they actually do? I would look at soundproofing your own home as much as possible and try earplugs.

Carpet plus a rug is what they can do

And make sure he's barefoot

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:17

DinkyDonkey2018 · 03/01/2024 08:26

Finally! This is the comment I've been looking for! The OTT "handcuff to the bed" comments are ridiculous. At 5 years old, they have full capacity to understand that getting up at 1am, 3am, 4am etc is unacceptable. Sticker charts, consequences for getting out of bed in the middle of the night, explaining they're upsetting the neighbours - there are lots you can do that don't involve imprisonment of the child to their bed. Sounds like they're just being lazy parents to be honest.

A normally developing 5 yr old absolutely is able to understand and follow those rules.

Some kids aren't, for various reasons, they can TRY but if their brain development doesn't allow it what then?

Jk8 · 03/01/2024 09:17

Have you considered its not actually the child ?
A new build should have some basic insulation aswell so he'd have to stomping pretty hard to be heard but an adult might sound more like a child
& its easier to say 'we'll try' then admit it's one of them

SomeCatFromJapan · 03/01/2024 09:18

@Wanna17 childfree women are damned regardless. If they live in a flat and complain at the sleep deprivation caused by children, they are bitter. If they move to a detched house to get some peace, they are under-occupying and stealing space that could go to a family.

I really don't think it's reasonable to want to have a full night's sleep - it's kind of important to function at work, drive safely etc. And OP unlike the parents didn't choose to have a child.

I do agree that the soundproofing sounds utter shit though.

Nanny0gg · 03/01/2024 09:20

Elizabethtattletale · 03/01/2024 09:15

Soundproofing aside, my point is that you CANT control some difficult things in life (especially people) and you do have to accept and adapt or you spend your life battling something you can’t change. Not good for anyone.

He’s 5, he will grow out of it. It’s not forever. it’s normal child behaviour.

Why don’t you put sound proofing on your ceiling?

I don't actually think it is normal child behaviour. I've never known one.

So things need to be put in place.

The parents need to soundproof as much as possible.
Are they trying to distract him? Find something else for him to do if he can't sleep?
Make sure he's burnt off lots of energy during the day if that helps?
Seen a doctor? (how are they functioning on such broken sleep either?)

Being 'mindful' means absolutely nothing

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:21

Firawla · 03/01/2024 09:07

Unfortunately for you, you are totally in the wrong.
sounds like the building has shit sound proofing and that’s actually not their problem.
I wouldn’t want to live my life constantly telling my kids to stop walking, or quieten down, in our own home. So I can imagine they may not want to get into that - bearing in mind it seems like you may not even be satisfied anyway.
normal walking around or child based noise is considered acceptable legally and generally. You may not like it but I think you have to just continue with the white noise machine or consider moving, and not to a flat - maybe a detached house
Dont your upstairs neighbours also have upstairs neighbors aswell? If they are just ignoring and getting on with theirs they may be wondering why you can’t do the same
if you do keep bringing it up all the time then you could be the one actually harrassing them, and in the wrong.

Who said anything about constantly telling your kids to quieten down in their own home? I think telling them to quieten down at night - such as - at 12:30am, 1:20am, 3:50am, 4:20am, 5:20am etc... is more than reasonable.

As per my original post - "I only wanted the running to stop at unreasonable hours!"

No. They do not have upstairs neighbours themselves. They do have neighbours on the other side though as the owners extended the flat prior to renting it out.

OP posts:
laclochette · 03/01/2024 09:21

I'm sorry they're so unsympathetic. Not even taking measures to lay insulation is really uncaring. We had complaints from downstairs about noise from the ground floor shared hallway, so everyone who used that entrance clubbed together to have insulation laid. You'd hope people had common decency to take responsibility but apparently not.

mollyfolk · 03/01/2024 09:22

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 08:23

Of course, I would like the running/stomping to not happen in the middle of the night. This isn’t a case of a child simply needing the toilet - and a bit of movement here and there.

As per my previous posts - these are 20-30+ mins of running up and down and jumping. When it stops, it’s sometimes not for the rest of the night - as it also then starts up again too. So, certainly long enough that it’s not just that he needs water, the toilet, has had a bad dream.

If the parents say the best they can do is ‘try’ - then so be it.

As per my original post… I quote: “For 8 weeks, they seemed to promptly stop the running in the middle of the night/early hours (which I only wanted stopped at unreasonable hours anyway).”

But if it really is that impossible - and if they really can’t control their child running/jumping/stomping in the middle of the night/early hours - then at least put foam mats and rugs with underlay in the named hallway - so that if he has to run, the noise is deadened/dampened - because as it stands; he’s running on hardwood floors.

They apparently bought a rug for the bedroom, but this isn’t where the noise largely is. I suspect he plays in the wide hallway because there’s more room.

Again; I have offered to pay for these foam mats/hallway rugs. I even offered to pay for carpeting too!

Many people on here seem to have played a game of Chinese whispers. One post said I wasn't doing enough from my side. Another said I should feel bad for 'evicting a family after Christmas' - when I never said anything of the sort - or wanting to do so. I haven't 'fought fire with fire’ - despite many people saying I should etc...

I seem to be quoted - or certainly implied to have said many things I haven't. I'm aware the thread is long, but please see/read what I've written as opposed to what others have claimed I've said to get the full picture.

I understand all that including the fact that you offered to pay for foam mats which is very generous - did you direct this towards the family or the landlord because I’m surprised the landlord didn’t take you up on it.

I understand that you find the noise excessive but you will struggle to prove that noise from movement constitutes a nuisance. It is the family and the landlord that I am saying, in my opinion, are dismissing your concerns - not people here. I think the best way you can make changes happen for you is to focus all of your efforts on getting the landlord to change the flooring. I’m not saying you are wrong to be annoyed but I just don’t think you are going to get anywhere focussing on the child running rather than the flooring.

Sartre · 03/01/2024 09:22

I wouldn’t personally complain about noise after 6am because this doesn’t class as the ‘early hours’ imo. Many people wake at this time for work and young children particularly tend to.

How long is he running around at midnight? If it’s just a brief run to his parents room or whatever, I’d get over it. If he’s waking up and running laps around the flat for 10+ minutes, then it’s an issue at that time. I’d imagine they haven’t bought the large rug or insulation because they can’t afford it though. Rugs are expensive, even small ones and large ones are hundreds of pounds.

Ultimately don’t think there’s much you can do short of logging and complaining to the landlord.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:22

Jk8 · 03/01/2024 09:17

Have you considered its not actually the child ?
A new build should have some basic insulation aswell so he'd have to stomping pretty hard to be heard but an adult might sound more like a child
& its easier to say 'we'll try' then admit it's one of them

I actually wish it wasn't the child. It is though. (Yes, I had the same thought!)

OP posts:
Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:23

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 08:50

Let me guess.... the noise at 1:20am, 3:50am, 4:20am, 5:20am etc... is just kids 'expressing themselves' in that case. Anything other than that would be considered 'controlling them' by your logic.

For me I consider it 'controlling him' if we're somewhere I have no option but to keep him still for safety. So say at a doctor's appt when he had to wait several hours without eating prior to an MRI. He did so well then the last half hour lost it and the only way to keep everyone safe was to corner him, pull him onto a floor cushion and keep him held physically in a corner until a side room could be found for him. I'm happy to do that and have him be distressed by it for safety. Not convinced I'd do it so noone had to hear him move about the house

DoorLockedAgain · 03/01/2024 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

What a deeply unpleasant post. It’s people like you that give us parents a bad name.

Many of us have kids who we love, but we still try and teach them social norms and are considerate to our neighbours.

Portakalkedi · 03/01/2024 09:25

FfS, housebuilding here is so crappy. If a developer is building new flats which are specified to have wooden floors, then they should be made to install the maximum soundproofing between floors (and in fact on all sides for flats) given the number of selfish and inconsiderate twats around. I feel for you OP. I'd also be asking the developers for the specs on what was used for soundproofing and check what they SHOULD have done. Maybe council planning can tell you what should have been done.

Lelliekellie · 03/01/2024 09:25

Your neighbours sound like a pain. Have you thought about putting some soundproofing/acoustic panels on your ceiling? We had a similar prob in our old house with unhelpful neighbours and thats what we did. It did dampen the noise. x

Jk8 · 03/01/2024 09:25

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:22

I actually wish it wasn't the child. It is though. (Yes, I had the same thought!)

That sucks. I have no advice then other then to take it up with each & every time or ask to speak to the child yourself (both far easier said then done) especially at or before 4 in the morning!

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:25

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 09:06

Question OP. When you hear the child stomping about at all hours of the night do you hear his parents putting him back to bed? Surely if you hear his footsteps you would hear theirs getting up and dealing with it? Or do they just let him run wild? Do you hear voices or just a lone child stomping around the house and nobody else up?
If they can fix it for 8 weeks, they can fix it. Funny how they could do that when the landlord intervened but now cannot be bothered!

Great question. I don't hear their footsteps/voices at all. Neither do the other neighbours. We can only hear the stomping - which is a testament to how loud it (the stomping) is.

I only hear the child's footsteps - because the child stomps/falls into every step - as children do. Obviously, when the running/stomping has stopped - I can imagine it is because they've put him back to bed or something. But then it starts again...

They can indeed fix it/dampen it. I suspect the building management are hoping for this outcome being the ideal one, since I can't imagine their LL is keen to install carpeting - even though I have offered to pay for it. I have also offered to pay for rugs with underlay and foam mats.

I suspect with Christmas etc... they just became lax - and that's fine to some degree, but am baffled as to why they are opposed to rugs/mats.

My suspicion is they'll take me up on the rugs/foam mats once I'm back in the UK, but that the LL won't want to install carpeting.

OP posts:
Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:26

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:21

Who said anything about constantly telling your kids to quieten down in their own home? I think telling them to quieten down at night - such as - at 12:30am, 1:20am, 3:50am, 4:20am, 5:20am etc... is more than reasonable.

As per my original post - "I only wanted the running to stop at unreasonable hours!"

No. They do not have upstairs neighbours themselves. They do have neighbours on the other side though as the owners extended the flat prior to renting it out.

Have you considered they may be putting in constant effort but it takes a few minutes to stop a running kid each time and if they weren't he'd be constantly banging and thumping?

We actually had to.remove our living room rug because it turned into a hazard as he kept picking it up and flinging it round. It got to the point where it made more sense not to have it. We're in a house and it doesn't impact any neighbours under us but have you asked them WHY they don't want rugs? They may have a reason beyond cost

SuchiRolls · 03/01/2024 09:26

I forgot to add, my neighbours bathroom is adjacent to my son’s room. The neighbour lives there alone. He has a shower or bath every night at 22:30 and his tap squeals when he turns it on. We’re in a 1928, brick built, end terraced house so the walls aren’t thin but still can hear everything as the bedroom is mostly quiet. We could hear him using the toilet 😳🫣 not his fault of course, just the dynamics. I did have to message him once to ask him to turn down the podcast he was blasting in the bathroom whilst he waited for his bath to run at midnight 🥴🫣🤣 once my sons awake. He’s awake. That was a loooong night. Anyway, we decided to soundproof the wall with rock wool insulation. It’s cut out about 75% of the noise. It’s been an absolute game changer. I can recommend that at least on your bedroom ceiling. It will dampen the sound and absorb some of the vibrations too. Probably cost the same as you paying for carpets, to have a false ceiling put in. It’s flame retardant. Worth looking in to.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Rockwool-Sound-Insulation-Slab---50-x-400-x-1200mm/p/234857

Rockwool Sound Insulation Slab - 50 x 400 x 1200mm | Wickes.co.uk

Rockwool Sound Insulation Slab - 50 x 400 x 1200mm

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Rockwool-Sound-Insulation-Slab---50-x-400-x-1200mm/p/234857

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:27

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:25

Great question. I don't hear their footsteps/voices at all. Neither do the other neighbours. We can only hear the stomping - which is a testament to how loud it (the stomping) is.

I only hear the child's footsteps - because the child stomps/falls into every step - as children do. Obviously, when the running/stomping has stopped - I can imagine it is because they've put him back to bed or something. But then it starts again...

They can indeed fix it/dampen it. I suspect the building management are hoping for this outcome being the ideal one, since I can't imagine their LL is keen to install carpeting - even though I have offered to pay for it. I have also offered to pay for rugs with underlay and foam mats.

I suspect with Christmas etc... they just became lax - and that's fine to some degree, but am baffled as to why they are opposed to rugs/mats.

My suspicion is they'll take me up on the rugs/foam mats once I'm back in the UK, but that the LL won't want to install carpeting.

Does he make other noise or just stomping? You don't hear any other footsteps at all? How do you know all the footsteps are him and not the adults?

ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 09:27

I don’t know if the kid is nocturnal it doesn’t make them antisocial there are a lot of nocturnal people it can be a genetic mutation

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:28

Lelliekellie · 03/01/2024 09:25

Your neighbours sound like a pain. Have you thought about putting some soundproofing/acoustic panels on your ceiling? We had a similar prob in our old house with unhelpful neighbours and thats what we did. It did dampen the noise. x

Yes! I have thought of exactly that! I just wish they'd take me up on my offer of foam mats/hallway rugs with underlay - which I would pay for. I even offered to pay for carpeting. But obviously hallway rugs/foam mats - is a lot easier - and cost effective. It would be great to know how much that deadens and dampens the sound.

If they still resist to that - for whatever reason - then yes to soundproofing!

OP posts:
sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:28

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:27

Does he make other noise or just stomping? You don't hear any other footsteps at all? How do you know all the footsteps are him and not the adults?

The strides, that's why!

OP posts:
Elizabethtattletale · 03/01/2024 09:29

Nanny0gg · 03/01/2024 09:20

I don't actually think it is normal child behaviour. I've never known one.

So things need to be put in place.

The parents need to soundproof as much as possible.
Are they trying to distract him? Find something else for him to do if he can't sleep?
Make sure he's burnt off lots of energy during the day if that helps?
Seen a doctor? (how are they functioning on such broken sleep either?)

Being 'mindful' means absolutely nothing

If it’s not every night that he’s up in the middle of the night then I’d say it’s normal. All sorts of things can crop up;

  • toothache
  • ear infections
  • bad dreams
  • sleep walking
  • night terrors
  • needing the toilet
  • wetting the bed
  • various illnesses
  • seeking reassurance if there are stressful things going on
  • separation anxiety
  • boundary testing

Some of the above need working on. Some don’t. All are common in my experience of over 30 years of working with children.

If it’s every night he is waking up several times in the middle of the night then that’s less common at this stage and something to be worked on, but not something that can be immediately ‘controlled’. But from the OPs posts, my understanding is that it’s usually early morning and once or twice in the night - but not every night. Could just be wetting the bed and the ensuing sheet change. Regardless. The parents need support rather than blame. They are probably sleep deprived and doing their best.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 09:31

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:26

Have you considered they may be putting in constant effort but it takes a few minutes to stop a running kid each time and if they weren't he'd be constantly banging and thumping?

We actually had to.remove our living room rug because it turned into a hazard as he kept picking it up and flinging it round. It got to the point where it made more sense not to have it. We're in a house and it doesn't impact any neighbours under us but have you asked them WHY they don't want rugs? They may have a reason beyond cost

I did indeed ask - but via the building management company and their LL. I've yet to see what they come back with - which is why I'm not jumping on soundproofing as yet.

I'm not sure why anyone is so resistant to it. As I said before in my posts; I'd offered to pay for it - and even carpeting if needed.

OP posts:
Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:31

Sorry op I may have missed this but how old are you? Have you lived there long enough to previous neighbours and did you have any problems then if so?

Do you have children?

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