To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

Thank-you for sharing your ill-informed view of what makes a sexual assualt sufficiently awful for you to call it a sexual assault.

People are really reaching here though. It was a victory celebration not an 'assertion of dominance', even if a bit inappropriate.

Do people really think football players are asserting their dominance over each other when they kiss after a goal? Was the woman that kissed the winning jockey asserting her dominance too?

People are bonkers lol.

No, people are bonkers for accepting clearly unacceptable behaviour. Raise your expectations.

Well luckily Spanish law doesn't rely on your opinion, it relies on whether consent was given so its irrelevant whether you think a non consensual kiss is a celebration or not

Do people really think football players are asserting their dominance over each other when they kiss after a goal?

If there is no consent then it is sexual assault regardless of the sex of either of them

Was the woman that kissed the winning jockey asserting her dominance too?

If there was no consent then it is sexual assault regardless of the sex of either of them

Yes, the test for sexual assault is not whether or not you believe Person X is asserting their dominance over Person Y, it's whether or not Person X has sexually assaulted Person Y.

I said it was inappropriate/unacceptable. I just don't think it was sexual assault.

So why is nobody outraged at the woman who kissed the jockey?

And what about female relatives smooching children without first getting consent? Are they pedophiles?

What is your skin in the game here? There seems to be an agenda in your posts to undermine sexual assault perpetrated by men on women, which is what this thread was about.

Why do you want to make women feel that they should have to accept men using their inherent physical advantage, common power advantage, and age-old male privilege against them? Why do you want it to be acceptable for men to perpetrate sexual assault on women by claiming the actions here (which constitute sexual assault in law) don’t reach that threshold? Who does that serve?

There was loads of outrage on social media etc

If you want outrage on MN then start a thread about it

I don’t think it was SA. It was a spur of the moment reaction. No it might not have been the best idea but definitely not SA in my book.

Is this replying to me?

I ask because I've literally said it was inappropriate, so I'm struggling to see how that can be interpreted as 'wanting to make it acceptable'.

The problem is people shoehorning in all this guff about the patriarchy and power imbalances. The bloke just kissed her on the lips in a moment of excitement as many others in the football world have done over the years.

It's no doubt a tradition that needs relegated to the past, and I can see why a woman might feel more uncomfortable but it's just not something IMO that should lead to a criminal record/jail time/putting on sex offenders list.

I'm highly doubtful he'll ever do it again after this so I think a reprimanding would've been enough. The double standards on here are clear. The woman who did exactly the same thing in the same week is facing zero criminal charges and the only criticism she seems to have received is from people comparing it to this and pointing out the double standards.

Had the football incident not happened nobody would've batted an eyelid about the 'sexual assault' this woman committed against a man.

A sane poster appears!

I think he would have had a much easier time of this if he hadn't doubled down on it

Yes, I don't think he's helped himself. But it depends on what people were expecting from him. A sincere apology is almost to be expected but going along with criminal proceedings no way. In his situation I'd fight that tooth and claw.

I really hope that therapist is no longer practising. What they told you is so far from acceptable that I would say they should be thrown out of their Membership Body.

Making out that you are being dramatic and playing the victim makes me furious on your behalf.

Please read the information below from the organisation that specifically supports victims of crime. It confirms that what happened to you is assault by penetration and is as serious as rape. It further says that forcibly kissing someone i.e. without their consent is sexual assault.

Rape and sexual assault - Victim Support

It may be that the way you come to terms with the level of betrayal from your father and counsellor is to minimise what happened to you. However, it will be hard to really heal without unpacking this. I hope no-one in counselling today would victim blame someone who had been violated in this way.

I'm so sorry that both this happened to you and you were so let down by those who should have been there for you.

Didn't consent. So assault.

YABU. If a man forces himself on a woman and enters any cavity on her body, it’s sexual assault. In this instance, he’s forced his tongue in her mouth which she did not ask for and she couldn’t get away easily from his ‘lengthy embrace’ either. He was forcing himself on her so it’s 100% assault.

No, a poster who is happy to minimise male entitlement. Not a good look, either of you. Do better.

It's unwanted contact but sexual assault? He kissed her, I really fear for my son growing up. Can I hold you hand? Can I kiss you? Can I touch your shoulder? Can I give you a hug? Talk about a crap way to start a relationship.
I don't see how a kiss is more than just a kiss. If you've ever been sexually assaulted you should understand why this wasn't assault.

So if you’re in a pub, the football is on, a goal is scored and a man who supports the goal scoring team turns around, grabs your head and kisses you full on the lips you would think it’s no more than just a kiss?

Or put another way would you think that was acceptable behaviour if your son did that to an unsuspecting woman?

Just because it’s on the lower end of the scale of a sexual assault doesn’t make it any less horrible for the victim.

Oh please don't worry.

Tell your son that if he ever finds himself in a position of power and at a formal event where he is congratulating people he should remain professional and not grab them by the head on stage and kiss them on the lips.

He'll be absolutely fine. 👍

She doesn’t pull away. No not assault just a bit off

He's got her head clamped between his hands and they're on stage. She probably froze.

Which is a very common reaction to this sort of unwanted and unexpected behaviour.

Not pulling away therefore it was not assault is a dangerous position to take.

It surely means that you think any woman who fails to pull away from an unwanted encounter was not assaulted.

She didn't shove me off that means she wanted it...

She can't pull away he's holding her head forcibly in place ffs

God its as bad as when people say "it can't be rape she didnt struggle"

What makes it sexual assault is lack of consent. Not which side of the flight, fight, freeze spectrum you fall on or whether you had the ability to move away