To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

It doesn't matter why he did it, for sexual gratification or not. If my manager was male and 'pecked' me on the lips after a big success, damn right I'd be reporting it to HR as assault, regardless of his motives.

@Onelifeonly "I'm not sure she was right to go after him as she has - it does suggest she's out for revenge for more than just the kiss."

I'm very glad and grateful she is doing this. It will hopefully get rid of views like the OP view, or at least go a long way towards getting rid of them.

Next generations will have clearer boundaries.

What he was or wasn't looking for doesn't matter.

SA definition includes any unwanted sexual contact. Do you really think he'd hold a male footballers head firmly and kiss him?

Just imagine if I did a job really well at work, we’d finally finished that contract on time, and the boss grabbed me for a seconds long full body hug which I couldn’t get free of, then followed up with a smacked on the lips.

I wouldn’t have gone in the next day. Couldn’t have.
None of us know what other people’s experiences have been. No one should be holding another person like that without the dance of shall we or shan’t we first!!

And she didn’t ’go after/for him’. She was pressed by interviewers as to whether she was ok with it, and admitted she wasn’t.

'What separates sex, or a gesture of affection, from sexual assault? It's a matter of consent.'.

This is from the met police website.

The comments like this from the OP anger me no end. These sort of comments make it sound like what is and what isn't assault is up for debate.

"If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent."

Yes please. That would be great. Clear and enthusiastic consent should be a requirement for being kissed or any physical contact for that matter.

You don't think clear consent is a requirement?

It is sexual assault, but it would be good if the language around it could differentiate between levels of severity

This one, @harerunner. Enjoy!

As another poster said, where do you draw the line? Should we call this sort of interaction "a bit inappropriate but, ya know, men will be men"?

I had my dress pulled up by a young guy who was probably on a stag do. It was early evening in town and I was queuing at a cash point. It really shook me, more than I expected it to. Was that sexual assault or should he be given a free pass because he was young, drunk and trying to impress his mates?

Sexual assault involves the lack of consent, end of.

I would understand if her charge was that he'd grabbed her and held her in an embrace without her consent, but she doesn't seem to be complaining about the embrace and hug... just the briefest of kisses at the end.

YABU.

As is her right. Or would you be okay with a male colleague kissing you unexpectedly without consent, as long as it was brief and he wasn't doing it for sexual gratification?

No matter how 'brief' it was, you don't kiss someone without their consent.

Again, it is really that simple.

It doesn't matter how brief the kiss was. it was unwanted sexual contact which is classed as sexual assault. He did not have consent

Realistically though, do you expect every piece of physical contact between people who know each other to be preceded with a verbal request, with any failure to do that;
however slight the contract, to be worthy of sexual assault charges?

It's taking a great principle, and taking it to unreasonable extremes.

As is her right. Or would you be okay with a male colleague kissing you unexpectedly without consent, as long as it was brief and he wasn't doing it for sexual gratification?

Perhaps not. But ffs, I wouldn't press charges in such a situation! It may be a bit inappropriate, but a brief kiss at the end of an embrace like that shouldn't be seen as a criminal act.

Normal interaction involves a bit of give and take and communication. There’s a section at church where we greet each other- some total strangers, so best pals and everything in between.

We all give off signals- an extended arm for a handshake, open arms for a hug, standing firmly in place and not turning towards anyone of you want to merely nod your greeting. We have a learning disabled adult who hugs people regardless but generally we all rad the signals. To pretend that social touching is out of the blue with no preparatory dance of consent is disingenuous.

It was assault, but you are probably right that there should be gradations of the term, in the same way there are for bodily harm. If it would mean fewer opportunities to minimise low level assault, this would be a good thing.

How many kisses have you instigated or been the recipient of, where the person has explicit asked for consent beforehand?.... It's not how human contact does or should work in practice.

It’s a classic situation of assuming it’s ok because it’s ok with you. That’s not how it works.

That would be your personal choice to not press charges. It doesn't make it any less of a SA though, especially as he wouldn't treat a male footballer in the same way.

Women should absolutely be protected from that behaviour, no matter how ''brief'' it is. If men don't want to face potential consequences then it's very easy for them to keep their hands and lips to themselves.

FFS.

Why do so many people don't understand the meaning and importance of consent?

A man grabbing and kissing a woman without their consent has committed a sexual assault.

Is that really so hard to understand?

It is also important not to minimise this type of behaviour because it reinforces the idea that men have some kind of ownership of women's body and that they should not get upset if someone randomly decides to fondle them...

It was unwanted sexual contact where instead of apologising and saying it was done in the moment he dug his heels in on how he could do what ever he wanted and his mum went on hunger strike.

he could have avoided this whole situation by earnestly saying sorry.

i am much more disturbed about the cock grabbing celebration that he did earlier on when they scored.

he is a man who thinks he can do whatever he wants, these are the consequences.

I remember the one where a stranger grabbed me in the street on New Year’s Eve. I didn’t like it.

All the other times I’ve kissed anyone we’ve been doing the eye contact thing, leaning in towards each other etc.

Are you often kissing people with no preamble?