Uncle's reaction to education discussion

[Krankopi]

Family gathering in Southern England over Xmas with extended family and we drove over from West Wales where we've lived for past 18 months. I'm chit chatting to aunt and catching her up on our lives and tell her about plans for DS education.

Our DS turns 3 next year and we're opting to send him to a Welsh-speaking pre-school from September and then if all goes well to Welsh speaking primary school.

The school is very good, recent investment and a few neighbours whose kids go there really rave about it. I studied French at uni and have very open attitude to other language so think it would be great opportunity for DS to be bilingual From young age.

If there were any unforeseen issues and it doesn't work out then there are English speaking primaries and secondaries in area also.

Uncle overheard the conversation and chimed in 'but you're not Welsh!' and 'it's a dead language'. I attempted to explain benefits of bilingualism, fact our area has quite a lot of Welsh speakers and DS will grow up there etc but fell on deaf ears and he really went for it at that point.

He seemed properly offended by the whole thing as if we were somehow betraying our roots (we're English and DS also born in England). It was completely ridiculous. He then proceeded to insult the Welsh, their language before aunt told him to cool it and convo moved on.

His opinion about DS education is irrelevant but thinking back to his reaction has really angered me. It wasn't just that he didn't agree, his blood seemed to really boil. He is a bit of a little Englander type who voted for Brexit so I shouldn't be surprised but I can't understand how someone could take such offense to going to Welsh school in Wales.

The more I think about it, the more I want to say something to him to put him in his place. I find his attitude disgraceful and I'm so close to writing or calling to give him piece of my mind. AIBU? Should I just forget the whole thing?

Maybe making my point another way will work better, like writing next years Xmas card in Welsh.

When my husband went to vet school you had to have an O level in a foreign language. One of his friends was Welsh, English was his foreign language! Yor DC will be fine.

I wish I could speak Welsh. Love Wales and go on holiday there every year. Meet a number of people whose first language is Welsh and I would love to be able to speak to them in their own language, even although they all speak excellent English. I can just about, now, understand the pronunciation of the Welsh Alphabet - for example the difference between 'f' ( pronounced 'v') and ''ff' ( pronounced 'f'), but I'd love to be able to speak the language

Had to google the phrase above from @TeaGinandFags - but I 100% agree it is a very good idea OP

GCSE's in Welsh medium schools are taken in Welsh, A levels are taken in English so that they can go to Uni in England if wanted and know their subject in both Welsh and English. It doesn't seem to taken long for them to move over to English my Dd did it with science subjects just fine.
Uni they can turn in papers in either language to be marked here in Wales.

There are certainly some benefits - it will help DCs integrate in the local community and yes speaking 2 languages is handy, but personally, much as I love Wales, there are other languages I’d rather be bilingual in than Welsh.

That said, I’ve no idea why you give a bugger what your uncle says - if I’d made that decision myself everyone else can go fish.

There’s no point confronting him about it, I would just ignore it.

He is a bit of a little Englander type who voted for Brexit...

And you're his carbon copy, as seen from the other side.

OP Idk why this is thread worthy. Many children attend different language schools.
You obviously don't like uncle (voted Brexit etc).

It's not a choice between Welsh or German, though. There isn't a German school down the road, or any other foreign language. But learning one additional language (Welsh) will only make it easier to learn others (like German) when the opportunity arises.

Did you see the MN thread about East Asian women only marrying white English perverts? Clearly the racists and xenophobes are out in full force today.

I think it's a great idea to encourage your DS to learn Welsh, especially if it's likely he'll spend a good chunk of his childhood in Wales. It's also a great opportunity for you to learn Welsh at the same time. As a linguist, I'm sure you'll enjoy that challenge and it will also be something fun to share with your DS.

As another poster has said, I think it's a respectful move to make and shows that you plan to settle and integrate into your new home. I just don't see how anyone can reasonably object to that!

Hmm, do you have any (English) friends with children at this primary school? Just because you’re keen to learn the language and join in, doesn’t mean it will all be plain sailing.

We’re Brits in Ireland and DS went to the local school. He’s a teen now and his Irish language skills are extremely good but he has encountered minor racism from some of the kids at school because he’s not a local and we don’t have any local connections. 🙄

At least we aren’t Black or Ukrainian though, as the racism some of those poor children suffer from the local Irish families is unreal. Recently, the local paper pictured a non white family with a baby born on Christmas Day. The comments online about the fact they’re ‘not Irish’ are utterly vile.

Sounds good! Your son will likely feel that Wales is his home and where he comes from, so it leaves more options for him to stay and work there in the future. Your uncle sounds bonkers but I can see lots more like him on this thread sadly 🤷

Your son, your choice. It’s quaint and probably quite a middle class trendy thing right now, but let’s not pretend it’s of any benefit career wise. Welsh isn’t up there with Spanish, Mandarin and Arabic in the list of languages that is going to benefit anyone’s job prospects.

How smart is DS? If he struggles with reading and writing English having to do Welsh as well may set him back. If he wants to learn Welsh great, but I wouldn't want it to interfere with his early learning in other subjects.

I think learning other languages is a good idea, but there are much more generally useful ones, European languages like Spanish that is spoken in lots of Countries, German if he wants to go into sciences particularly Chemistry. Chinese, Russian...

It's also silly to compare learning a language with immersion.
It's not relevant for OP's son but I do think immersion schooling can pose problems for an older child. I did my home country's GCSE equivalent in two languages (we had choices, English or others, but I had to switch halfway due to moving schools). I am very good with languages but still struggled a bit. Others couldn't work with the switch and had to hire private tutors to continue the syllabus in the language they'd already chosen.

Bilingualism is different from the ability to do higher level work in the language.

Meanwhile there's DH who got an A in an European language in GCSE's but scrapped a pass in the English Language. Baffled.

Hear hear @Krankopi

a second language gives you so much in terms of cognitive abilities- no matter what language it is.

i speak a fairly non-useful language but it’s a facilitator to loads of others and in its rightful place it’s good to have. Makes me stand out a bit too in terms of CV I suppose too.

I am Welsh. My parents aren’t. They didn’t send my sister or I to Welsh medium school as they weren’t sure we were going to stay in Wales. I did Welsh to A level which was really fucking hard with no Welsh language support at home.

DH is English. There was no question of DD not going to Welsh medium school. She’s now 13, fluent in both languages and flourishing in Japanese and French. She thinks she might do Italian and German too. There are lots of studies that show early bilingualism is helpful for future language attainment and other intellectual pursuits.

It’s a fantastic gift to give your child, OP. (The pastoral care also tends to be much better in WM schools.)

How smart is DS? If he struggles with reading and writing English having to do Welsh as well may set him back. If he wants to learn Welsh great, but I wouldn't want it to interfere with his early learning in other subjects.

WM schools don’t teach English until age 7.

Fabulous decision!! Ds went to welsh language primary when we moved back to wales when he was 9, younger ds went from 3 and it was a fantastic choice for our ds. Both speak fluent welsh, have a wonderful connection to a language that is the first language to most where we live. There is so much anti welsh here but you have done a positive thing . Elder ds got all a at gcse and A level and is now doing a masters so it had no negative impact on his education. If you need support or info pm me as also in west wales.

I moved to Wales as a child. Took welsh to A level as a second language in an English speaking school. I've worked in Wales, England and abroad. It has never, and I mean never, been useful in the workplace/made me more employable. Not that it doesn't have merit to learn another (not widely spoken, even in Wales) language for other reasons, like brain development.

Regardless of whether or not he'll use it much in the future, learning a second language is fantastic for brain development.

I would make the same decision as you, in your shoes OP. I'd also just laugh at uncle knobhead behind his back and maybe prep some better comebacks ready for next year's Christmas party.

I would have checked (I'm sure you did) that the comparable academic outcomes are just as good from the welsh medium schools as the English but from reading the thread that sounds all good.

You’re making a good decision, for myriad reasons. He’ll be at a huge advantage work wise if he stays in Wales as an adult as well as the cultural and developmental benefits it brings.

Why is it an odd decision. If you live in Wales our children are taught to speak Welsh, and that is in all schools. Same as if you lived in France and went to a local school, you'd learn French, no one bat's an eyelid at that.

My DD went to a Welsh speaking school, I can't speak Welsh. She is now fluent and didn't struggle with it at all. Speaking another language can only be an asset.

Also it's not a dying language, people who trap that comment out are just being ignorant!

I'm bilingual. However I still think the language you learn your education in is crucial.
I can fully understand learning languages, I speak three. However narrowing down to 1 lesser known language cuts down your possibilities later.
My family do the same in Galicia and they then find it hard to get jobs in other parts of Spain as many of them don't speak castellano well enough. Cataluña also gives jobs to people from Cataluña , it does divide people. Bilingual or trilingual with popular languages is an asset.
Learning Welsh and speaking Welsh is one thing, that's great. But having your whole education in Welsh means you will then have a narrower pool of people to communicate with.
Learn Welsh yes. It's wonderful. But your whole schooling in Welsh I think divides.

As a Welsh speaker living in Wales, speaking Welsh is actually super handy when looking for jobs. It used to be that only the public sector were interested but more and more private sector employers are seeing the benefit - it's a diversity that's being encouraged. It's probably not the most "useful" language but my relative speaks French and Italian and other than a holiday trip to a French A&E department she's hardly used those languages either.

Jobs in Germany now, not so much though. BREXIT, anyone?