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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Uncle's reaction to education discussion

282 replies

Krankopi · 31/12/2023 14:53

Family gathering in Southern England over Xmas with extended family and we drove over from West Wales where we've lived for past 18 months. I'm chit chatting to aunt and catching her up on our lives and tell her about plans for DS education.

Our DS turns 3 next year and we're opting to send him to a Welsh-speaking pre-school from September and then if all goes well to Welsh speaking primary school.

The school is very good, recent investment and a few neighbours whose kids go there really rave about it. I studied French at uni and have very open attitude to other language so think it would be great opportunity for DS to be bilingual From young age.

If there were any unforeseen issues and it doesn't work out then there are English speaking primaries and secondaries in area also.

Uncle overheard the conversation and chimed in 'but you're not Welsh!' and 'it's a dead language'. I attempted to explain benefits of bilingualism, fact our area has quite a lot of Welsh speakers and DS will grow up there etc but fell on deaf ears and he really went for it at that point.

He seemed properly offended by the whole thing as if we were somehow betraying our roots (we're English and DS also born in England). It was completely ridiculous. He then proceeded to insult the Welsh, their language before aunt told him to cool it and convo moved on.

His opinion about DS education is irrelevant but thinking back to his reaction has really angered me. It wasn't just that he didn't agree, his blood seemed to really boil. He is a bit of a little Englander type who voted for Brexit so I shouldn't be surprised but I can't understand how someone could take such offense to going to Welsh school in Wales.

The more I think about it, the more I want to say something to him to put him in his place. I find his attitude disgraceful and I'm so close to writing or calling to give him piece of my mind. AIBU? Should I just forget the whole thing?

Maybe making my point another way will work better, like writing next years Xmas card in Welsh.

OP posts:
RidingMyBike · 31/12/2023 15:05

It'll open up job opportunities for him if he stays in Wales - almost all the job ads I see specify Welsh language as well as English. Depends how close you are to the border etc.

BeckyBloomwood3 · 31/12/2023 15:05

Your uncle is an idiot OP he's only made himself look stupid.
Yes you can have a go at him but what will you achieve?
Personally I'd ensure DC has at least one European or Asian/Middle Eastern language also. German, Mandarin, Arabic, French but presumably they do it at GCSE.

In my birth country we grow up speaking multiple languages learn at least 3 in school. Even illiterate old grandmothers who never went to school speak at least 3 languages. The English attitude towards multilingualism is so so strange!

Original poster
Krankopi · 31/12/2023 15:06

DinoDays · 31/12/2023 15:04

Blimey! This thread is a real eye opener!

Despite being an old fucker I didn't really believe the English were narrow minded racists. But hey this thread proves otherwise!

Why on Earth would it be an odd decision to live in Wales and speak Welsh! What the actual fuck! He's not only going to be able to speak Welsh! He'll be speaking English at home!

My flabber is gasted at some of these posters. Genuinely!

Your son will definitely thank you later!

Thank you! Yes I'm surprised by some of the ignorant reactions tbh but I think some people think English is the be all and end all and know nothing about other languages so just decide to criticise in their ignorance.

OP posts:
murasaki · 31/12/2023 15:07

It's a great idea, and as you say, may making learning other languages in future easier. Your uncle needs to button it.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/12/2023 15:07

He is a bit of a little Englander type who voted for Brexit

Don't play chess with pigeons. Smile, know your child will be bilingual, which is a benefit in any language, and move on.

Original poster
Krankopi · 31/12/2023 15:07

RidingMyBike · 31/12/2023 15:05

It'll open up job opportunities for him if he stays in Wales - almost all the job ads I see specify Welsh language as well as English. Depends how close you are to the border etc.

We're quite far west so Welsh is spoken quite a lot

OP posts:
MacLaine · 31/12/2023 15:08

There are definite benefits to being bilingual from a young age, though I’m not sure Welsh is the most useful choice.

GacksonJalaxy · 31/12/2023 15:08

LunaLovegoodsLeftEyebrow · 31/12/2023 15:00

Well no, not to speak Welsh in Wales; that does seem reasonable.

But I would consider it very unwise to basically give your child his education in a language that very few people use and you do not speak. A language not spoken anywhere else in the world except for Wales. A school where many (most?) of the children will be speaking Welsh at home and your son could be excluded as being in the ‘out’ group.

I wouldn’t do it, but as I said before - your choice.

This is just an embarrassing level of ignorance. The languages of most countries are only spoken in that country. If I went up live in Hungary long term with my family, should I not make sure my child learns Hungarian just because it's not spoken anywhere else?

Original poster
Krankopi · 31/12/2023 15:08

BeckyBloomwood3 · 31/12/2023 15:05

Your uncle is an idiot OP he's only made himself look stupid.
Yes you can have a go at him but what will you achieve?
Personally I'd ensure DC has at least one European or Asian/Middle Eastern language also. German, Mandarin, Arabic, French but presumably they do it at GCSE.

In my birth country we grow up speaking multiple languages learn at least 3 in school. Even illiterate old grandmothers who never went to school speak at least 3 languages. The English attitude towards multilingualism is so so strange!

Edited

I know! I just find the narrow mindedness so annoying but having a go at him won't solve anything. I'll just have to find other ways to make my point

OP posts:
DanceMumTaxi · 31/12/2023 15:08

Sorry If this sounds daft, but do they only speak Welsh in a Welsh speaking school? Is there no English spoken at all? Is absolutely everything taught in Welsh? Wouldn’t this disadvantage your son if all the other children come from Welsh speaking households and Welsh is their first language? I can totally see how speaking Welsh would be good for him, but not if he’s going to be behind his peers.

TeaGinandFags · 31/12/2023 15:09

Syniad da gwaedlyd, OP!

romdowa · 31/12/2023 15:09

LunaLovegoodsLeftEyebrow · 31/12/2023 15:00

Well no, not to speak Welsh in Wales; that does seem reasonable.

But I would consider it very unwise to basically give your child his education in a language that very few people use and you do not speak. A language not spoken anywhere else in the world except for Wales. A school where many (most?) of the children will be speaking Welsh at home and your son could be excluded as being in the ‘out’ group.

I wouldn’t do it, but as I said before - your choice.

I'm in Ireland and we have several Irish speaking schools and I know several children who attend, their parents have little to no irish and the kids do really well.

PuttingDownRoots · 31/12/2023 15:10

The only downside is you not being able to help him... but on the other side, it may help you learn too.

GacksonJalaxy · 31/12/2023 15:11

DanceMumTaxi · 31/12/2023 15:08

Sorry If this sounds daft, but do they only speak Welsh in a Welsh speaking school? Is there no English spoken at all? Is absolutely everything taught in Welsh? Wouldn’t this disadvantage your son if all the other children come from Welsh speaking households and Welsh is their first language? I can totally see how speaking Welsh would be good for him, but not if he’s going to be behind his peers.

I think some send their kids to Welsh speaking schools specifically because they don't speak it at home. It's a really convenient way for the kids to learn.

Alittlenonsensenowandthen · 31/12/2023 15:11

Ps this type of thread is the reason that the Welsh government cracked down second home ownership in Wales. If you don't like it here fully then stay in England!

Marmalade71 · 31/12/2023 15:11

The reality is that in many parts of Wales the better schools are the Welsh medium ones. I think the deciding factor - and you probably need to keep an open mind on this - is how well they teach and integrate children who have no prior knowledge of Welsh. If you get any sense that he's falling behind in his other subjects as he isn't understanding the teaching or that he's being ostracised as non-Welsh speaking, it's time for a re-think, but assuming the school is well used to this situation, it's surely a positive. I grew up in Wales and hated learning Welsh in school, but I was 11 when I started, much better to have the opportunity for immersion at an early age.

Original poster
Krankopi · 31/12/2023 15:11

I am learning Welsh myself too. Only a beginner but doing the official course and so by the time DS has homework I should be able to help!

OP posts:
DuckonaBike · 31/12/2023 15:13

I’m also a bit shocked by some of the replies on this thread- being bilingual is a massive bonus and you will be giving your son a great opportunity. Many Welsh jobs require you to speak English and Welsh, and learning languages is great for brain development.

As an ignorant English person who struggles to speak anything other than English, I really feel quite envious!

Original poster
Krankopi · 31/12/2023 15:14

Marmalade71 · 31/12/2023 15:11

The reality is that in many parts of Wales the better schools are the Welsh medium ones. I think the deciding factor - and you probably need to keep an open mind on this - is how well they teach and integrate children who have no prior knowledge of Welsh. If you get any sense that he's falling behind in his other subjects as he isn't understanding the teaching or that he's being ostracised as non-Welsh speaking, it's time for a re-think, but assuming the school is well used to this situation, it's surely a positive. I grew up in Wales and hated learning Welsh in school, but I was 11 when I started, much better to have the opportunity for immersion at an early age.

He'll start preschool aged 3 so should pick it up quickly and be fairly fluent by the time he's at primary school. I think children are like sponges at that age with language.

OP posts:
Simonjt · 31/12/2023 15:15

Unfortunately it is a fairly common view among a lot of monoglots. Some think they have an amazing gotcha that a child not learning a language until 3-4 will be disadvantaged at school, yet they fail to realise that children who move countries face this (often when older, I was 8) and typically perform as well as or better than locals.

Boomboom22 · 31/12/2023 15:15

Hmm. The problem is English is globally the language of business then French so are you setting him up to only live in Wales rather than a more global language? Because of the Americans of course, when I was young it was not expected for English to still be the language of business tbh.

Original poster
Krankopi · 31/12/2023 15:15

DuckonaBike · 31/12/2023 15:13

I’m also a bit shocked by some of the replies on this thread- being bilingual is a massive bonus and you will be giving your son a great opportunity. Many Welsh jobs require you to speak English and Welsh, and learning languages is great for brain development.

As an ignorant English person who struggles to speak anything other than English, I really feel quite envious!

Exactly! I would have loved to be bilingual as a child whatever the language. As it happened, I learnt a second language later on as a teen but still saw massive benefits from it

OP posts:
tttigress · 31/12/2023 15:15

Don't want to be a hater, but I think Wales has the worst educational attainment out of each of the nations in the UK.

So I would actually have a hard think about where you want your child to be long term, rather than the two extremes of "Welsh is a dead language" and "Won't it be wonderful that he will be bilingual".

namechange55465 · 31/12/2023 15:16

MacLaine · 31/12/2023 15:08

There are definite benefits to being bilingual from a young age, though I’m not sure Welsh is the most useful choice.

I mean, Welsh seems like quite a useful choice for somebody who lives IN WALES tbh...

RedHelenB · 31/12/2023 15:16

LunaLovegoodsLeftEyebrow · 31/12/2023 14:55

I mean, you do what you like, but this seems like a very odd decision.

Why? They are living in Wales
My friend was in a similar situation, her and her siblings and friends could speak a secret language her parents couldn't understand. And one of then went to Oxford so the education obviously was fine.