Uncle's reaction to education discussion

[Krankopi]

Family gathering in Southern England over Xmas with extended family and we drove over from West Wales where we've lived for past 18 months. I'm chit chatting to aunt and catching her up on our lives and tell her about plans for DS education.

Our DS turns 3 next year and we're opting to send him to a Welsh-speaking pre-school from September and then if all goes well to Welsh speaking primary school.

The school is very good, recent investment and a few neighbours whose kids go there really rave about it. I studied French at uni and have very open attitude to other language so think it would be great opportunity for DS to be bilingual From young age.

If there were any unforeseen issues and it doesn't work out then there are English speaking primaries and secondaries in area also.

Uncle overheard the conversation and chimed in 'but you're not Welsh!' and 'it's a dead language'. I attempted to explain benefits of bilingualism, fact our area has quite a lot of Welsh speakers and DS will grow up there etc but fell on deaf ears and he really went for it at that point.

He seemed properly offended by the whole thing as if we were somehow betraying our roots (we're English and DS also born in England). It was completely ridiculous. He then proceeded to insult the Welsh, their language before aunt told him to cool it and convo moved on.

His opinion about DS education is irrelevant but thinking back to his reaction has really angered me. It wasn't just that he didn't agree, his blood seemed to really boil. He is a bit of a little Englander type who voted for Brexit so I shouldn't be surprised but I can't understand how someone could take such offense to going to Welsh school in Wales.

The more I think about it, the more I want to say something to him to put him in his place. I find his attitude disgraceful and I'm so close to writing or calling to give him piece of my mind. AIBU? Should I just forget the whole thing?

Maybe making my point another way will work better, like writing next years Xmas card in Welsh.

Why. The child will be speaking Welsh, living in Wales among other Welsh speakers. I don’t see what’s odd here.

What the heck?! Can’t believe some of these responses OP. Sounds to me like a great idea to give your son the opportunity to speak another language. It’s great for development as others have said and it makes it much easier to pick up other languages in the future too. English is not the first language for my DIL (though she speaks it perfectly) she also speaks a little of two other languages. My DGD is being brought up bilingual by my DIL and my DS. Why would you not? Astounding how some people think educating your children with other languages is a bad thing. Baffled!

@Willyoujustbequiet , @Welshphoenix , it's xenophobia not racism

No it's racism as defined by the the EU, UN etc..and the Equality Act 2010 all of which include national origin.

@Willyoujustbequiet ,it's not defined by the act, because English people and Welsh people are British nationals.

Scotland, Wales etc..are nations in their own right. Member nations of the United Kingdom.

The Act covers nationality, ethnicity and national origin as a protected characteristic under race.

@Willyoujustbequiet , it doesn't. You saying it does doesn't make it true.

I'm not saying it. The Act says it ( along with the anti discrimination laws it replaced) and subsequent case law.

Just think your argument through. Are you seriously suggesting for example an Englishman in Scotland being told a job was available to Scots only/no English would not be open to legal challenge?

Or that a Scot treated less favourably by his English colleagues /called derogatory names simply due to being his being Scottish couldnt rely on the legislation?

It would be laughable to suggest a person from Wales could be discriminated against legally simply because the person doing the discriminating was English - which is what you're arguing saying they're both British so they have no protection.

It's precisely why the the term national origin was included.

I think we have derailed the thread enough but I would suggest doing some research.

Yawn

Which I clearly said . many ( not all) English. So I do not believe I did tar an entire demographic of people the same.

Comparisons with pp saying ‘you’d learn Hungarian/German if you moved there!’ are stupid. Wales has only 3 million people, and of those, less than a million speak welsh. It’s very niche and will be of little use unless your child chooses to stay in that tiny area of wales for the rest of his life.

However, I guess there’s no harm in it…I’d make sure he goes to an English speaking secondary school though, as he’ll need to be able to write properly in English (essays etc). In primary school I’d also be doing some extra work with him at home to make sure he can read and spell in English (assuming all their books will be in welsh)

Welsh will not be being spoken in the home and may not be being spoken regularly outside it in public either. That may pose challenges to the child's development if school instruction is largely in Welsh. When people generally talk about bilingualism they are meaning when two languages are spoken in the home to the child and/or it is the standard language of communication in the community.

Not saying that OP is wrong here, but just hope she has discussed this with the school and got things being put in place around support.

I know a number of Welsh folk who I work with regularly including a few who went to Welsh language schools from non-welsh homes. None are fluent in Welsh and say uniformly that only speaking Welsh at school was not enough as after they left they simply forgot their Welsh, which wasn't fluent anyway.

You said 'the English' at the beginning of your post.

@Ace56 , It’s very niche and will be of little use unless your child chooses to stay in that tiny area of wales for the rest of his life.
Welsh is the everyday language in quite a large area of Wales Cymru.

The more densely populated areas like the cities (e.g. Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham Caerdydd, Abertawe, Casnewydd and Wrecsam) tend to have fewer Welsh day-to-day speakers percentage wise.

The Welsh culture is rich and varied and the language will make that culture open to the child.

Sure, but my point still stands that most people, even in Wales, do not speak Welsh. So unless the child lives in one of the small areas that does speak it day to day, it will have very little use to him in the future.

I agree with your uncle to a degree, primary education needs a lot of input from parents and if you don't have Welsh as your first language, he's not going to do that well.

I do think though there is a benefit to learning any language/

This is COMPLETE BOLLOCKS.

Explain?
I've had three children go through (different) primary schools and had to help them all.

My DD went to Welsh medium primary with no Welsh at all. Fluent by Christmas. Won the Welsh poetry competition for Y1ans 2 in Y1. Went to a bilingual secondary - everything except English, maths and science through the medium of Welsh in KS3. Bilingual in KS4. Learned French through the medium of Welsh and got A at GCSE. A/A* in English lang/lit and A/B in Welsh lang/lit at GCSE. Not even remotely disadvantaged. I don’t speak Welsh. Her dad doesn’t even live in Wales.

Knowledge is worth having even when it isn’t practical. But even in areas where Welsh isn’t the majority language there are ways to use it, and being bilingual is an advantage in lots of ways not connected to language use.

I have one child who has been in WM education since 3.

At primary there was very little homework and she was pushed to meet her potential by the teachers. (Was doing some GCSE level maths before she left.). All comms sent bilingually and open door policy to the staff throughout. (I chaired the PTA for 5 years and have been a governor for 5 years without being fluent in Welsh.)

There are lots of Welsh courses, so even DH, who is from Yorkshire, picked some up.

Now at comp it’s pretty easy for her to translate anything she wants to discuss and for us to talk through maths or science or history or geography and for her to translate it back. My parents were teachers (don’t speak Welsh) and have supported her at times without issue. We haven’t struggled to support a single subject. She’ll be choosing GCSE options soon.

Not really keen on some foreign languages, German and Welsh being two of them.

I prefer Gaelic. Something very romantic about it, I love hearing it spoken even though I’m not Irish and I can’t understand a word.

Sorry <hides behind parapet>

Welsh is the oldest language in the UK…….

”Foreign”……….

Then how come us immigrants with non-English speaking parents are out performing children who are british by birth in both primary and secondary school in both England and Wales?

@Ace56 , Large areas of Cymru speak Welsh day-to-day.

If you are in somewhere like Broughton Brychtyn or Connah's Quay Cei Connah, you'd probably not hear any Welsh spoken, but 6 miles or so away in Mold Yr Wyddgrug you would

This shows the density of Welsh speakers: