Uncle's reaction to education discussion

[Krankopi]

Family gathering in Southern England over Xmas with extended family and we drove over from West Wales where we've lived for past 18 months. I'm chit chatting to aunt and catching her up on our lives and tell her about plans for DS education.

Our DS turns 3 next year and we're opting to send him to a Welsh-speaking pre-school from September and then if all goes well to Welsh speaking primary school.

The school is very good, recent investment and a few neighbours whose kids go there really rave about it. I studied French at uni and have very open attitude to other language so think it would be great opportunity for DS to be bilingual From young age.

If there were any unforeseen issues and it doesn't work out then there are English speaking primaries and secondaries in area also.

Uncle overheard the conversation and chimed in 'but you're not Welsh!' and 'it's a dead language'. I attempted to explain benefits of bilingualism, fact our area has quite a lot of Welsh speakers and DS will grow up there etc but fell on deaf ears and he really went for it at that point.

He seemed properly offended by the whole thing as if we were somehow betraying our roots (we're English and DS also born in England). It was completely ridiculous. He then proceeded to insult the Welsh, their language before aunt told him to cool it and convo moved on.

His opinion about DS education is irrelevant but thinking back to his reaction has really angered me. It wasn't just that he didn't agree, his blood seemed to really boil. He is a bit of a little Englander type who voted for Brexit so I shouldn't be surprised but I can't understand how someone could take such offense to going to Welsh school in Wales.

The more I think about it, the more I want to say something to him to put him in his place. I find his attitude disgraceful and I'm so close to writing or calling to give him piece of my mind. AIBU? Should I just forget the whole thing?

Maybe making my point another way will work better, like writing next years Xmas card in Welsh.

OP - you asked for an opinion, you can't get defensive when you get opinions different to yours.

If you wanted an echo chamber to tell you how right you are and how wrong uncle is, MN is not the place...

Utterly bonkers, you live in an area of Wales where Welsh is widely spoken. Welsh government is actively seeking to increase the use of the Welsh language.

Why wouldn't you choose a Welsh medium school.

🤷🏽‍♀️

We did exactly this. They picked it up like sponges. The only thing i noticed is that they don't really seem to know when they're speaking Welsh (odd as that sounds). They couldnt translate things until quite late in primary school, despite understanding perfectly, they just didn't seem to realise they were speaking a different language I didn't u fees rand, they were all just "words" they knew.

I sent them to English medium secondary as I wanted to be able to help them more. This was tough because only a few from their class did this, but they soon made new friends.

Several colleagues that went to Welsh secondary and sixth form had said they found the transition to English medium university really quite tough, and wished they'd moved for sixth form or earlier, so I figured this would help with that too.

Definitely no regrets

We are non-Welsh speakers living in Wales and sent the DC to English medium schools - mainly because primary schools at that time made such a thing about the importance of parental support that we thought it would be best. (Also the schools were further away, no Welsh medium secondary in our town.) I do wonder sometimes whether it was the right decision and DD in particular has a moan about it occasionally. She wishes she was fluent and that's her project for next summer after A levels. But thinking back, they did get a lot of support at home, especially in early primary and at gcse time. That wouldn't have been possible if they were at WM school, so on balance it was probably the right thing to do. It's a great idea if you have time to become fluent yourself though, so you can be as involved as they need.

I have definitely lost out on opportunities at work because my Welsh isn't good enough.

If you aren't Welsh speaking yourself won't he be at a huge disadvantage?

Start learning Welsh now then.

It's a lovely language, in my opinion. This is a link to a free, but very brief online course run by the Open University. Croeso: Beginners' Welsh | OpenLearn - Open University

My dgs went to welsh nursery from 2 years old and welsh led primary.
He's 11 now and fluent in both English and Welsh.
My dm asked why the school didn't teach a more useful second language.
I told her they do, English, Welsh is his first language.
So many ignorant English people @Krankopi including your uncle. He's a xenophobic knob for sure.

i think he’s being really ignorant in terms of lack of knowledge.
if you are outside of Wales you likely don’t understand the education system.
the Welsh speaking schools are often the best performing schools in each area. Wales doesn’t have grammar schools or selective schools from what I’ve seen. So it’s state or private if you can afford it.

so best state schools are Welsh speaking. Stick to what you are doing. Education is devolved so it’s completely different to England. A lot of English people don’t have any knowledge of this (why would they need to tbf)

I think your choice is really interesting, OP. It does represent a really simple way of becoming bilingual. I love it. (But without your explanation I probably wouldn't have understood it.)

The benefits of being bilingual are well known, your uncle sounds like a pompous (and racist) old fool. I'd love for my DC to speak more than one language

Nothing wrong with learning Welsh, and your child will benefit if it's a region with a lot of Welsh speakers.

But it's worth pointing out that over 80% of Welsh people can't speak Welsh, for anyone who may be thinking it's necessary to know how to speak Welsh in Wales.

Would wager a fair sum your uncle is monoglot. Speaking a second language, any language, is a basic marker of civilisation that enables the speaker to understand there is more than one way of looking at things because there is more than one way of saying them. Communicating with your neighbours in their language enables you to love them as yourself. Requiring them to speak yours implies a belief you think you're better than them.

^ this
excellent decision on your part. Try to ignore the ignorant uncle they come in all flavours including English!

It’s great that Welsh is more widely taught now. When I was at school in Pembrokeshire in the 80’s/90’s there were very few Welsh medium schools.

So why post? You think you're right so go with that

@Krankopi the moment to correct your uncle has passed.

Speaking Welsh in Wales though, is netball bad thing ar all! In English but DBro and SiL have lived in W Wales for over 30 years, both are retired teachers, and both taught in Welsh. Their dc both went to a Welsh medium nursery and primary school, and continued to study Welsh to GCSE. One now had a public facing role with the local authority, one works for bbc Wales, and both positions preferred Welsh speakers.

I also went to university in Wales, and know plenty of people who speak Welsh as a first language.

Go ahead ands send your son to. Welsh medium preschool, there will be no detriment at all. Your uncle sounds ignorant and xenophobic.

It's also spoken in Argentina.

Welsh medium schools turn out bilingual children.

If you speak two languages it is easier to learn a third.

Many children in England do not speak English at home.

My DGF was born in the Welsh colony in Patagonia. I remember people coming to see him from there in the 90’s- they could speak Welsh but he couldn’t.

Being Scottish but living in England, I think the dominance of English media leads a lot of English people to not realise that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are really quite different culturally and structurally to England, not just an extension of England under a different name. The number of MN questions about the 'UK curriculum', when Scotland has always had an education as separate to England's as that of France or Norway, is one thing that demonstrates this. I think a lot of posters are essentially imagining the usefulness of Welsh in England, when in fact most people born in Wales will live and work there for all their lives and the likelihood of needing Welsh to get a job is pretty high.

I have relatives in Welsh medium schools and lots of children from non Welsh speaking families have been sent to them. Speaking Welsh in Wales can be an advantage for many jobs. My aunts all have jobs which require a Welsh speaker.

I have friends in the Civil Service with jobs in Welsh translation, communicating in Welsh with the public, in transport, tax, health, justice etc.

There are lots of advantages to being bilingual too, including aiding learning a further language/s.

Surely @DinoDays comment is racist in itself.

You can't make sweeping, inaccurate negative statements about a whole people. The irony!

Nice bit of casual racism there.

We are an English speaking household, however both my children have been educated through the medium of Welsh. Both of them speak Welsh and English fluently and are now in a Welsh language secondary school with the option to take some of the core subjects in English. Learning Welsh has only ever been an asset and I hope it will give my children many more career opportunities in Wales than they would have had without Welsh. Not only that, they feel very much part of the Welsh culture by being able to speak the language. I'm totally with you OP. I think you're making a great decision 

Casual racism but true, holidays in France where the English complain that menu's in restaurants are in oh French and why can't they be in English ? How dare the people in Krakow speak polish asked one English couple on a bus trip around Europe, they even wrote and complained to the bus company that they had taken them to 7 countries where the people spoke "funny" instead of English. Many ( not all ) English folk bring these comments on themselves because of their entitlement

But it's some English people, not all.

Just as some Welsh people ( looking at you in laws) are racist. But you can't possibly tar an entire demographic of people with the same brush. That is in and of itself racist.