To think there's too much left wing dissonance

[LefthandRight]

Feminist but support women hating philosophies and cultures
LGBT friendly except for the L part
Want to make minorities feel safe except for the Jewish community
Believe in the NHS but go private when needed
Think we should continue atoning for colonialism but mention Germany and WW2 and its like....move on already
Hate unearned privilege but it's handy I'll be left a property
Applaud multiculturalism but seek out monoculturalism in my holidays
Avoid palm oil as it kills trees but I must have a Christmas tree
Eat vegan because factory farming is disgusting....except the stuff that goes into my rescue cat food
Believe women shouldn't kneel to the standards and demands of the patriarchy, but I still remove my body hair, its my choice after all

@Walkingwashingmachine

But I do hear that from the left eg Never kissed a Tory, Tory scum, Tory stealing from the poor, cruelty etc. The class-based attacks on the countryside. It seems more personal than it should be.

I agree and this is one of the reasons I have always struggled with Labour. Conservatives historically (not so much the present incumbents) have been more inclusive and open minded on this front.

The Labour Party has historically been quite closely linked with a certain strain of Protestant Christian doctrine which is quite dictatorial and sanctimonious and I think has never quite shaken this off.

For all that though I still think that the Left is sometimes held to unfairly unrealistic standards.

VanityDiesHard

"Who is 'forcing (women) to be described as something else'?"

Also VanityDiesHard

"I am also a cis woman, but I don't feel any particular connection to other cis women because we all have uterui."

How are those two statements even remotely contradictory?

Example of tying yourself up in knots to the point where you no longer know argument what your making.

The NHS still needs to exist to ensure that people who can’t afford treatment can still have it (I can be one less on the waiting list and take less taxpayer funding by going private).

But in reality it doesn't work like that. There are only so many doctors, and most who work privately also work for the NHS. The more demand there is for private treatment, the less time there is for NHS treatment. So the idea that you're one less on the waiting list therefore you're somehow making it easier for those who have no option but the NHS doesn't hold up. All you're doing is using your wealth to jump the queue.

https://chpi.org.uk/blog/private-hospitals-have-no-doctors/

The only person tying themself in knots was the person who presented two non contradictory statements as a gotcha.

Conservatives open minded and inclusive? The burning £20 notes in from of homeless people guys? The "step over the homeless on my way to the opera" man? The "obviously I don't know any working class people" PM? The "rohypnol's fine if you only use a little" Home Secretary? The "I Saw Three Ships Come Sailing I-not on my watch!" PM? The "no cartoons in a reception centre for child migrants" man? I could go on......

You are calling other women cis, therefore forcing a label other than women on them. Is that too hard for you to comprehend?

You are attempting to sound reasonable but I’m afraid your post annoyed me.

If you actually had Jewish friends you would know that Jewishness is an ethnicity, not just a religion. Jews can be atheists or practice other religions besides Judaism, but they remain ethnically Jewish and thus remain exposed to antisemitism. Since this conflict started, antisemitism has risen around the world, and Jewish people live with this, regardless of their views on Israel or the conflict.

Why is it that you ‘respect the rights of the Palestinians to live freely and safely,” - a statement of respect for humanity that the majority of us agree with.

And yet for Jewish people you “respect the right of Israel to exist.” Why are you reverting to this non-person centred language? Why not also be explicit that you respect the rights of Jewish people to live freely and safely too?” That’s what any reasonable person would like to see, regardless of whether they believe a nation state is the right solution to keep Jewish people safe or not. That is what we should be aiming for. The dialogue needs to stay solution focused.

@VanityDiesHard than as a 'female'. That is offensive to me
Yeah, "female" I can't help but think /read that in a Martin from Friday Night Dinner voice 😁
"Are you bringing your female" 😁

Yes exactly. I guess it’s a human trait to be irked by hypocrisy, but surely the more rational position is to judge by the overall good (or bad) that’s being done, rather than how closely someone adheres to what they claim to do?

Try Googling “birthing person”, “person with a cervix”, “womb haver” etc etc

You're confusing liberals with the left. The "left" or what remains of it, is in community groups, the margins of the Labour movement (not the Labour Party), in single action campaigns and local activism.

It's not a fashion label, a lazy stereotype or a t-shirt you can wear.

@AmeliaEarhart The advantage that the Tories have now is that they’ve abandoned any pretence at values beyond economics. Basically their “values” consist of “acquire as much money as you can and spend it how you like”; you can’t be a hypocrite if you don’t stand for anything beyond that. Even policies on immigration are based on whether the immigrants will be a financial drain or not. I don’t believe they honestly care about gender ideology either; they’re just exploiting a gap in the market.

Yes - this is the point I couldn’t quite articulate!

Not sure if you’re the PP who was quoted here but, if so, it would be most ethical to use public services such as NHS and normal state schools rather than leapfrogging over other people to get the quickest and best treatment, huge advantages for unis and jobs etc. When you fly back to the US several times a year (which isn’t any better for the environment than going there on holiday), are you flying in economy?

I would happily do all of the above but then I don’t pretend to be ethical or acting in the best interests of society as a whole rather than myself and my family.

OP you need a new definition of "left wing" because yours is one that i don't recognise, and I've been a Marxist for 40+ years.

MNs definition of left wing appears to consist of "anyone that I don't agree with, unless they're a Tory, in which case they might not be left wing unless I disagree with them on something".

I think it’s where you go on holiday to a Norway Spruce plantation to get a Christmas tree.

I don’t mean open minded and inclusive to the public at large. But Conservatism as a philosophy is a broader church which can accommodate other strains of political thought.

Left wing parties place a great emphasis on inclusion and tolerance in their policies but they tend to be very hostile to other political views.

What the Conservative movement does seem to be a lot better at (generally) is their ability to unite pretty damn sharpish under a common threat - the left.

If ever there was a time to unite it’s now. If they’re so good at it, why aren’t they doing it? They’ve been 20 points behind in the polls for a year or so now and they’re still squabbling amongst themselves.

Nothing of what is listed in either of the posts is exclusively left wing apart from the act of actually voting Labour. So the question remains. What does being left wing really mean these days to differentiate it from centre-right?

@BIossomtoes I did say "generally". Hence they've had how many years in power? There's still time yet, although hopefully it won't work this time.

You believe that men are women? Weird but you do you.

Fucking hell, who are you mixing with? I’m a “leftie” pensioner and I haven’t encountered anyone like that in my entire adult life.

Looking at your post, there's absolutely nothing that picks you out as left wing. So vote Tory or Labour as you feel! I would. You can lead an ethical life and not even vote at all as it doesn't seem that you believe you need to run your life using political values. Quite liberating.

Excellent post.