To think there's too much left wing dissonance

[LefthandRight]

Feminist but support women hating philosophies and cultures
LGBT friendly except for the L part
Want to make minorities feel safe except for the Jewish community
Believe in the NHS but go private when needed
Think we should continue atoning for colonialism but mention Germany and WW2 and its like....move on already
Hate unearned privilege but it's handy I'll be left a property
Applaud multiculturalism but seek out monoculturalism in my holidays
Avoid palm oil as it kills trees but I must have a Christmas tree
Eat vegan because factory farming is disgusting....except the stuff that goes into my rescue cat food
Believe women shouldn't kneel to the standards and demands of the patriarchy, but I still remove my body hair, its my choice after all

Interesting post. The "big State provider v little State supporter" and "the State owns all your money other than what it allows you to keep" v "you own all your money other than what is taken from you by the State in taxation" are I think essentially the two main distinctions between the British left and right. Or at least, as you say, that's what it used to be like. I don't think it's like that now. I think the current Government no longer believe in small State, low tax conservatism and the Labour Party are no longer the party for workers and are now the party obsessed with fringe issues. New rules now apply. I just can't work out what they are.

@Islandermummy What I would agree with is that (most) left wing people tend to view those to the right of them as bad people.Whereas (most) right wing people tend to have a bit of an "aw bless" attitude towards lefties without it being vitriolic.*

What I find interesting is the concept of the “shy Tory” - one who votes Tory but says they aren’t going to/denies having done so. Supposedly this has been a thing since the 90s. I wonder what the thinking is there? If you won’t admit to voting Tory, is it because you worry other people will judge you (but you think you’re doing the right thing, so why would that bother you?) or is it because at some level you feel like it makes you a bad person too?

There's basically no party for people who are economically left wing but socially centre

I suppose it's always been cooler to be left wing (comedians, actors, some rock stars etc)

But also yes, in some circles "Tory" is an insult. Perhaps no wonder there is now a bit of a back lash against it.

@LefthandRight "There's basically no party for people who are economically left wing but socially centre"

I think it's called the Labour Party.

I suppose it's always been cooler to be left wing (comedians, actors, some rock stars etc)

Lately, yes. Has this always been the case though? I feel that previously there was more diversity in the political leanings of these groups.

I am not sure your post is helpful op because it is just a whole load of sweeping generalisations and that is part if the problem.

Beliefs are more complex then memes or twitter posts and as a society we seem to lump people into either 'left' or 'right' without having a shared understanding of what these terms stand for.

We then alienate others with stupid language such as 'tory scum', 'champagne socialist'. Then our devices push us to read content which we strongly agree with or disagree with, pushing out the nuance even further.

I think we just need to realise that most people aren't good or bad, just complex as are their beliefs.

Have a word with yourself 🤣 what are you, the posting police? 🤨🤦‍♂️

It has been for as long as I can remember. Definitely going back to the 70s.

@MeMyselfAndMyEye I so agree. I wish it was possible to have more mutual respect for different political positions. Ultimately when I get together with my family and friends who are on the other side of the political spectrum, we always find there is more we have in common than sets us apart.

You really are talking nonsense. Just stop. It’s embarrassing.

You could say the same about the right wing tbf.

Support controlled immigration but desire unrestricted travel and retirement options.

Advocate for tougher criminal justice, but not for themselves or their loved ones.

Call for reducing / removing benefits but only those they don't personally receive.

Favour free-market capitalism but become outraged at price rises and low wages.

Expect low taxes while demanding extensive public services.

Want a small government but expect state intervention and regulation wherever / whenever they need it.

Believe in meritocracy unless they're not advancing as expected.

Champion freedom of expression but only for views / opinions that they like.

Advocate leaving agreements that protect human rights but expect all their own rights to remain untouched.

And so on....

I think the traditional alignment of left and right was more rooted in preferred government systems, but there has been a huge shift over the last few years and the "culture wars" has blurred these lines

For example, issues like immigration used to have advocates and opponents across the spectrum, but it is now pretty much polarized with no room for dissent on either side. The seismic shift in how accessible and shareable views / news / opinions are has also changed the game and I'm not sure we, as a society, have the ability to deal with it.

I’m sorry to hear about your daughter and I would have made the same decision (to go private) without hesitation in your shoes.

It is undoubtedly good of you to have deliberately chosen a low paying career and to donate the proceeds to charity (although I would hazard a guess that your DH is a very high earner for your lifestyle to be made possible). You recognise yourself that it would have technically been more ethical to use the NHS and state schools but you have taken the decision not to do so in the best interests of your DC (as I would also do).

I’m not sure about your question “Would I somehow be a better person if I voted tory, wanted to move to the American model of healthcare and engaged in tax avoidance schemes?” though.

Clearly it’s unlikely that we would think you are more ethical for wanting to reduce poor people’s healthcare and illegally avoid tax though (mitigating it is a different question, as you as a lawyer would know 😁). I think literally anyone in the world could give examples of the things they haven’t done and which would make them a worse person (eg Putin: I only invaded Ukraine and would be a less ethical person if I also invaded the US) but this doesn’t really support the argument that what they are doing now is ethical.

It’s hilarious that Tories are being called right wing. And the fact that they call themselves conservative is basically gaslighting of the highest degree.

Highest ever tax burden
Largest ever state spending. More than 50% of all spending in their country is done through the state
Highest ever national debt burden. Over 100% of annual GDP. This country borrows every money to pay welfare and debt interest
Highest ever number of economically inactive people on welfare
700k net migration a year
An economy on life support with growth nowhere in sight
Largest ever public sector
Productivity through the floor
Dudes in dresses turning up to rallies inciting violence towards women and even assaulting women in broad daylight with 0 consequence
Children in schools being socially transitioned to the opposite gender without their parents being told
Police arresting people for non crime hate incidents while majority of crimes go unsolved

If that’s not left wing politics in action, nothing is.

I agree with most of this post. Although I think the effects of covid and lockdown contributed as well to the dire economic situation. The two policing points and the social transitioning issue are spot on though.

Why are left leaning voters so angry and desperate to put an end to it then? That isn’t left wing politics, it’s political incompetence.

You mean like how they’re all applauding Frankie Boyle for his take-down of Ricky Gervais, as if Boyle himself did not make jokes about Katie Price being raped by her disabled son?

This is the Tory party whose guidance to prisons in 2014(IIRC) allowed Karen White (and others) into women's prisons where they sexually assaulted and abused women
Karen White is a He not a They. And the Left was outraged that he was moved out of the female prison and are happy to support men in women's prisons. See Lisa Nandy for one.

They are the party that introduced Self ID to the UK and inflicted the Trans shitshow on us
Self id has not been introduced to the UK and Labour are FAR more keen on it that the Tories who are pushing back and hard thanks to strong intelligent women like Kemi Badenoch.

I agree.

@CurlewKate
If you think labour is socially centre I suggest getting out of the house more

No, I don't. Trans women are not 'men' IMO.

If you are putting the term 'men' in quotation points then it seems you have your own special definition of men.

Fine by me, as you say, it's your opinion but don't enshrine that special definition in law. That's a belief as you say, and sadly the left demonstrate they can't be trusted with separating fact from fiction.

Self id has not been introduced to the UK and Labour are FAR more keen on it that the Tories who are pushing back and hard thanks to strong intelligent women like Kemi Badenoch.

That simply isn’t true. It was Theresa May’s government that introduced the Self ID bill in 2017. Don’t try to rewrite history, some of us have memories longer than a goldfish’s.

I put men in quotation marks because the person I was responding to has a definition of them which includes trans women. I do not classify trans women as men.

Trans women are not 'men' IMO.

What sex are they then?