Ricky Gervaise Armageddon yay or nay?

[pandosadick]

I'm stunned and not in a good way. Watched for a bit but found it too offensive. Apparently when he's on stage and making these 'jokes,' he's in character, like an actor playing a role how? He's gervaise doing what he does. Saying what he says… the fact that he regards anyone who disagrees with him as fucking idiots is laughable. His humour isn't nuanced or sophisticated and I'm pretty certain that the live audience who laughed aloud his jokes about disabled children weren't there for the nuances either.

Yep
My thoughts exactly.
Still wouldn't go as far as him though.
Who decides where the line is drawn?
Isn't it great we're all having such a laugh on here? Not!
Irony

Yet again you miss the entire point 😂

You diatribe post was nothing more than a personal insult directly to an individual, but also claiming "And if he can't take it, he shouldn't dish it.". Makes your post even more funny because he already predicted some one like you would post something exactly like this on social media and has already replied to you, hahah.

RG has already taken it from you, he has already predicted exactly what some one like you would say.

It was funny. The context was everything. He even makes the point that by using the word in the show, (but not in real life) will have people frothing about how offensive he is. Congratulations on proving him right.

He's a mind reader too?

Glad you found me funny BTW

Don't like him and what he says.

He's taken nothing from me.

I haven’t seen it but I find him a completely insufferable twat in general, who thinks he is much cleverer than he is.

If anyone says anything offensive in a group context it is fine, but not if it is aimed at a real individual? So RG can use the word retarded in front of an audience and that makes it an inoffensive term, but he wouldn’t direct it an individual

I think I understand what he is trying to do but the jokes for me just weren't that funny. I don't have an issue with edgy jokes (although I don't remember any jokes about vegans and animal rights activists?) but it has to be funny. Some of his earlier stand up was funny but this was flat.

So let's try and parse the joke that has been mentioned here. I disagree that you can't vivisect the frog. Cultural and literary analysis is a thing, a skill which helps us to understand ourselves and the artefacts of our culture. If you're all "ugh, it's just a joke" then you might not want to read this post.
(But also, please know you're living the unexamined life, and are no better than an animal. That was a joke. Or was it?)

RG had a joke setting up the idea of a celebrity; someone a bit like himself but morally bankrupt, self obsessed, self congratulatory. This person would be so self indulgent they would force a "kind gesture" on a child with cancer, come in with inappropriate tone and content, notice things about the person that make them different from "the norm" (i.e. no hair) and point that out with a huge lack of awareness. Gervais acts that person and says what they would have said.

That's a funny premise (and very similar to his excellent and monstrous creation in The Office). Lots of history for this kind of humour, lots of characters where it's funny that we see them saying, with no filter, things that we might think and have to check ourselves (That person is fatter than average, that person has less hair than average, that person is of a different race than me, blah blah).

The humour comes from a presumed emotional "embarrassing hot spot" in our culture. It assumes that we are all secretly thinking "Oh look, the main characteristic of that person is that they are black, or have a visible disability, that is Not Normal, and the majority of us in this room are white and able bodied, which feels Normal. Oh! but I mustn't say that, although it's true- because I might offend or upset them!!" It is very funny watching people struggling not to say inappropriate things that we all also struggle with. So I suspect that is where the humour lies; we have a release of tension laughing at someone who doesn't have the self awareness to hide their embarrassing inner monologue.

But! I don't personally find that a funny or relevant insight when it comes to the issue of "noticing difference". Most of us are streets ahead of that weird embarrassment now (oh no I mustn't mention the wheelchair!) It was on its way out with Basil Fawlty's Don't Mention the War, 50 years ago.

The idea of being "Woke" would genuinely be to think "Ah, interesting, I noticed some minority trait in a person before I noticed other things about them - what does that say about me? I'll just naturally refocus on other things and use it as an internal small reminder that we are all different." No shame, no embarrassment, just a bit of ongoing work we all do every day.

I think the cancer=bald head joke drags us back to an era we have left, where noticing difference for the majority of people was a big shock and suddenly a tedious thing you had to "pretend to not find unusual" - unless you were among friends when you could go back to your jokes about untrustworthy other races, hysterical women, etc.

So the joke allows RG to have his cake and eat it, by giving the audience that illicit thrill of laughing at people different from them while pretending they're not doing. It dog whistles to white, able bodied, "majority" folks who see the new way of ongoing work for diversity as an imposition on their inner monologue.

The people in the audience aren't laughing because children with cancer are bald. They're laughing at the idea of "a man who notices that about children who've had cancer treatment, characterises and simplifies them to their illness, and can't resist saying so". The trouble is, there is no way that character is funny (rather than distasteful) - unless you have a flicker of sharing the mentality (oh mustn't mention the bald head!). Otherwise how do you recognise it and find it funny??

I think folks who are in that place are a bit unevolved and old fashioned and it looks like Gervais is too. Maybe he's sending up people laughing at people who are like the imaginary celebrity. But I've seen no evidence of that in any discussion he has done about his work. And indeed if he is, he is mean spiritedly laughing at his own audience as they aren't in on the joke.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk :)

I disagree that you can't vivisect the frog.

Since I used that word, I can respond and point out you completely and utterly misread or misunderstood what I said (as per the internet law on the matter).

I did not say you can't do it. Just that if you do (a) not many people are interested and (b) the frog dies.

You can fit wheels to a tomato. But it's time consuming and a waste of time.

Pedants of the word unite !

I've just watched the disabled/handicapped toddler joke. I get the point he's making I think - that fussing about language isn't going to necessarily make the lives of disabled people any better/ could be detrimental in some cases. And sometimes you get busybodies policing the language disabled people use for themselves/ in their families. I also think "cripples" is a slur, obviously that's part of the joke re language too, but I think unlike "handicapped" which is just outdated, it's sufficiently a slur that it shouldn't be used by people who aren't disabled. I've made/ enjoyed dark jokes with friends who are physically disabled like me along the lines of "two crips make one whole person" when on a team at a board games night or similar, but I'd find it offensive if an able-bodied person used the term or made that joke. Punching down, and all that.

I realise that getting bothered by language is exactly what the joke is making fun of. I'm still bothered by it. On the whole, people who use language like cripple/handicapped/ r&t&&ded often tend to have offensive or outdated views about actual disabled people, who, let's not forget, include adults who see this stuff. This has a direct effect on how life is for us out and about in the community. Cripples and r&t&&ded people were kept at home or in institutions. Physically or mentally disabled people expect to be a part of the community.

(nb I don't star out slurs that relate to me, I do for slurs that don't relate to me if I need to discuss them)
Edit to correct the bolding effect of asterisks

I think that’s an accurate summary. I think it’s what the Mumsnet rules are.
ie personal insults are not allowed
edited for clarity

no, @SerendipityJane , I know the old saying you're referring to and I was using shorthand to say that actually you can do it and maybe the frog is dead but you understand more about the frog afterwards. It's a super well known phrase, so don't worrt, I got it, and wanted to move things along.

What did you think of my analysis? Did you enjoy the tomato with wheels? Do you think there is value in any cultural analysis?

TRAs are fantastic publicists.

They have brought so many people/acts/books etc to my attention that I may not have known about without their clumsy efforts.

So handy.

I would stick to Mrs Brown's Boys if I were you.

See my comment above- huge fan, but thought this was unfunny mainly due to findingit boring.

It doesn't work as he isn't playing a character. It's like Alan Partridge- total relic from a bygone time of racism and misogyny and we can laugh at him trying to navigate the modern world e.g. buying a house next to a school for the deaf- will there be noise? Won't there be noise? Etc etc.

The humour comes from a presumed emotional "embarrassing hot spot" in our culture. It assumes that we are all secretly thinking "Oh look, the main characteristic of that person is that they are black, or have a visible disability, that is Not Normal, and the majority of us in this room are white and able bodied, which feels Normal. Oh! but I mustn't say that, although it's true- because I might offend or upset them!!"

The people in the audience aren't laughing because children with cancer are bald. They're laughing at the idea of "a man who notices that about children who've had cancer treatment, characterises and simplifies them to their illness, and can't resist saying so".

That is one way people find things funny, but it’s not the reason the bald cancer kid joke is funny. It’s funny because it’s obviously something no one would ever say or even secretly want to say, or even think: “hey baldy, here’s a video of me twerking on TikTok!” It’s the outrageousness and how utterly wacky that would be if someone did say that to a kid with cancer, not the fact everyone is secretly wanting to call a kid with cancer “baldy”, we are holding it in and RG’s character said it for us. No one is secretly wishing they could show twerking videos either. It’s a surreal take on what would be the polar opposite of what you’d expect an interaction with a child with cancer would be.

I posted on one of the other threads about this. My concern is the use of the clips about ret**rds and baldies in the promotion/adverts for this show. Many of the people who will see those ads will not have the level of analysis/intellect that seems to be needed to understand this show. So use of those words will increase because they were heard on the telly and normalises it.
The ‘inner monologue’ @BillionaireTea describes is not that inner for many people. They can hardly keep their eyes in their head when spotting a baldie. I have had them stare through the hospital fence and comment on my child, to the point of having to say ‘we can hear you talking about us’.
The people who are so clever and ‘understand’ RG can do what they like but the adverts don’t provide all the ‘nuance’ and will just make use of certain words more common because the people watching the clips:adverts won’t get the supposed point.

@NotBadConsidering but I am sure there are people who are rude and use that sort of language to a child who is undergoing cancer treatment. Why would that be wacky?

I go back to the misogyny issues in school. The majority of girls (80% in a survey) have suffered or know someone who has been a target of misogynistic language/behaviour. When challenged boys will say a large part of it is banter.

Now this isn’t one arsehole male targeting individual females. This is a collective problem. Now in an earlier post it was stated when offensive language is used collectively and not targeted at an individual this is fine as can be deemed to be a joke. But is it acceptable for female students to have to put up with this collective behaviour?

I empathise with your situation, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that out-of-context jokes from a transient tv show on one streaming service from one comedian is going to normalise calling kids with cancer “baldy”.

Personally I’d like more cancer charities to take responsibility over their marketing. They always use a smiling bald kid going through chemo as the face of their organisation because they know it garners sympathy and it has to say “cancer” otherwise it won’t be distinguishable. These kids are fine to exploit for monetary purposes it seems.

but I am sure there are people who are rude and use that sort of language to a child who is undergoing cancer treatment. Why would that be wacky?

But that isn’t the full joke is it? Have you seen it? The full joke, and what is wacky, is the idea of a celebrity involved in Make-a-Wish wishes being so narcissistic he’d show a kid with cancer videos of him twerking without them even asking.

@NotBadConsidering quite a switch from a comedy show to cancer research fundraising. The children in the charity ads, or the thousands of child cancer patients that will follow them might benefit from a tiny bit of the 3% of research spending that goes on children’s cancer. Fundraising is more legitimate than profit for Netflix and RG.

Yay, I thought it was hilarious. Might I suggest that you use the off button since you are so offended OP.

The point is that bald children have been made the face of children’s cancer by children’s cancer groups. The bald cancer child is the trope. When you have a trope, it can be used for legitimate reasons, but it’s also not surprising when that trope is picked up for reasons that are deemed offensive.

If children’s charities weren’t so focused on the pulling power of this trope and sought to expand their advertising approach this trope wouldn’t be as useable for perceived negative reasons.

I just watched it, laughed and enjoyed it. It's just a comedy show, l don't think people should think to deeply about it

Nay. He didn't use the 'n' word in full did he - which to me shat all over his premise. Either words are just words or they're offensive. Clearly he understands some words are beyond the pale and so he didn't use it.

In which case he's just a man saying mean things.

I was really disappointed