.. to point out the folly of insisting children must "clear their plate"

[5foot5]

Hopefully this attitude to children's eating habits is a thing of the past, but just in case, here we go.

We currently have elderly FIL staying with us over the Christmas and New Year period. He lives alone but comes to stay with us quite regularly. He is in his 90s now and, like many elderly people, his appetite has shrunk and he can't manage more than a small helping. If he eats too much he will typically be awake all night with indegestion and want nothing to eat the next day other than tea and toast.

I am mindful of this when serving meals and either put food out so he can serve himself or, if it is a meal to be plated up, I try to give him a small portion. But sometimes I guess we misjudge. Last night it appears was one of those occasions and this morning he is looking sorry for himself.

The thing is he ALWAYS clears his plate.

Now I have a small appetite, always have had since I was a child and still do in my 60s. Fortunately my parents recognised this and never insisted I carried on eating when I had clearly had enough. (Teachers at school dinners sometimes tried to, to no avail.) I don't think we had heard the phrase "self regulation" in the 1960s but I guess this is what I learnt to do. I frequently leave food on my plate if the helping I have been given is too much and don't think twice about it.

When FIL this morning was going on about how we overfeed him I did try saying, as I have many times before, that he doesn't have to eat everything, I won't be at all offended if he leaves what he can't eat, I leave stuff all the time. But I am wasting my breath. The usual comments come out "I hate waste", "It's how I was brought up" and even admitting today "I have been conditioned to do it".

I guess he is not going to change now at nearly 93,but it does seem like such a harmful practice. No matter that you are completely full, that eating more will make you uncomfortable, keep you awake, maybe even make you ill, you nevertheless must plough on and stuff it all down because plates must be cleared. And then it is my fault for giving him too much!

So I suppose I am asking AIBU for thinking this is an out-dated and misguided attitude? And if you do insist on it have you considered the consequences?

It's a terrible practice with kids. I was brought up this way and still struggle to leave food if I'm full. Needless to say I'm overweight!

It's definitely an outdated, unhelpful way of thinking and I certainly wouldn't do it with children but to be fair, he's 93, it's not too much of a shock that he has an outdated view, especially as he'd have grown up through the wartime where that sort of view was encouraged to eke out resources. I wouldn't try and talk him out of that view now but focus on the waste side that he's concerned about rather than the clearing plate side, ie saying "oh yes, looks like I have DC too much this time, I won't serve out so much next time" and then distract by talking about something else.

Yes it is not a healthy practice but it probably come into being when food was scarce and starvation was a legitimate concern

We always serve family style, I have some older family who used to comment but noticed recently the comments have ceased.

I was always made to clear my plate and now feel guilty if I leave anything. I now find it hard to recognise when I am full and struggle with my weight. I tried slimming world but kept eating past the point of feeling ‘full’ which isn’t the point of the diet. I don’t feel full till I’m ready to burst. Calorie counting is much better as I know I can only eat x amount.

It was common, years ago, when food was more expensive (comparatively) and few people could afford to waste food. It was possibly also a throwback to the war years, when food was rationed.

It had no long term effect on me, but I didn’t follow the same practice with my kids.

I find the correlation between etiquette and bodily autonomy utterly bonkers. So many people take it as the rudest of social gestures if someone doesn't finish their plate, or worse every course of the meal. Yet if they serve up massive portions that it would make guests sick to finish it all, how the fuck is that supposed to work? It's honestly mind boggling. And portion size is almost always based on an adult male, which is patriarchal bullshit. Very few people plate up food differently for women even though they have smaller appetites & BMIs. Exactly the same for kids. It's shocking how often small children get a full plate of food roughly the same as for adults and are forced to clean it.

I don't have any history of ED but just a small appetite and genuinely enjoy food. However I hate social eating because I always feel obliged to eat until I feel sick in order to satisfy other people's ideas of "politeness". It takes the joy and fun out of everything. Needless to say I don't enforce any sort of that bullshit with my kids. They get kid-sized portions and can eat whatever or however much they want. They are never made to feel guilty if they don't or can't finish their food.

Yep, me too.

I don’t think anyone does this with their children now, do they? My children are adults, and it wasn’t common practice when they were little.

My mums in her 70s always been overweight and she has always said it's because she was conditioned to eat everything on her plate else she wouldn't get her pudding. I clearly remember a time when my granny told my DD she needed to eat all her lunch and my mum went mad at her, said my DD was great at self regulating and she was one of the reasons my mum was overweight!

If your FIL is in his 90,s he will have Been a teen/ young adult during the war when food was home cooked and there were shortages waste would have been frowned upon
I don't think it's sill common practice to insist children clear their plates .

Does he still do it if he serves himself, OP? In as, does he take more than he can eat, or does he regulate better if he's helping himself to portions?

I was brought up this way. I am not overweight. As an adult, it is up to me to stop eating when I choose and not blame someone else, whether they are my parent, me theirs, or other unrelated adult.

You are not going to change a 93 year old though.

Yanbu. I'm glad I wasn't raised like this and my children haven't been either. Smaller portions are better than waste or eating too much.

Stop when you are full although I often ask for an extra mouthful of veg!

My ds isn't great at eating veg and protein and happy to eat chips, potatoes etc until completely stuffed. So before we start the meal I will tell him 'for this meal, the chicken and the carrots are the main event, you can have more if you like. The chips are secondary. If you want more chips then you must have eaten all your chicken and carrots.' However if he is full then there is no pressure to clear his plate.

Same here. I was also brought up this,way and its deeply ingrained not to leave food. Was slim in younger days but am overweight now.
My father was born just pre WW2 and he probably had it bashed into him that you don't waste food. (And that household items should last which he takes to extremes)

I've NOT brought up my DCs (now young adults) this way, and they are better at saying they're full.

Mmm not sure that we have much to teach the elderly about healthily feeding children tbh. Obesity and eating disorders amongst the young are sky high now.

I think this attitude of not wasting good is ingrained in the elderly folk.
Would it be easier if he served himself, if he is able to?
I agree it's not a healthy practice, but some parents do still insist on this.

I thought clearing your plate died in the 1970s?

It's what an awful lot of overweight MNetters blame for their weight issues.

I think future overweight MNetters will be blaming their parents constantly feeding them snacks.

You really shouldn't be leaving food on your plate all the time as though it's just the done thing. Plate up and or request to be plated up the portion of food you'll eat. I hate waste too but I don't think it therefore acceptable to bin the excess. Just plate up your portion and put away the excess.

Just give him smaller portions, surely. He can have more if he wants, but he has told you that he doesn't want to waste food and you're insisting that he should, just to prove a point. If he starts with less then it solves the problem, surely?

Tbh It's not something I would have ever said to my kids. It's quite outdated.

FiL is from quite another era.

I don’t have a ‘smaller appetite’ just because I’m female. I’m 5’9” and a medium build, penis portions are based on this daft notion.

I know a lot of people who still cajole (aeroplane noises etc), bribe (usually with pudding) and distract (with tablet / TV) their DC into eating more than they want. It’s very common, though maybe expressed a bit differently than it used to be.

Personally I don’t agree with any of these approaches and leave mine to it. But I have DC who wouldn’t starve themselves so I’m ok for them to go hungry sometimes and make up for it other times.

Yes it's a terrible thing to instill in kids. I have a friend who has a big problem with her weight and she can't not clear her plate because it's just so conditioned into her. She's making sure she doesn't do the same to her kids. For your FIL I suggest never putting food on his plate for him, regardless of what it is, always put it in a serving dish and let him help himself. I've done this as an approach to help my fussy child, to the point where if two kids are each having a burger I put two burgers in a serving dish and they take one each. They can leave some on their plate though, you may need to consider cutting things up for your FIL. At his age he is unlikely to be able to change.