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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think there's something weird about this?

149 replies

balsamshill · 29/12/2023 22:07

We have a male friend in his 30s, our friend group is a mixture of people from their early 20s to early 40s, very large, some with kids some without.

I can't tell whether it's just him being a total narcissist or something deeper.
He is obsessed with spending time with friend's kids and getting them to like him. He's not got kids of his own, hasn't tried, has a partner who doesn't want them yet.

He is just constantly making jokes around them and is very gleeful around making sexual comments (not child related) in front of the children, he loves being Uncle _, shows the most attention to one particular child and wants this child to think he's amazing, etc.

I'm probably just looking too deep into this, but it does seem strange that he's so desperate for this child, someone else's child, to absolutely love him. The child isn't massively receptive. I feel like even though he's probably a good guy, when she grows up she'll probably think he's a bit strange too.

Even women aren't this desperate for other people's children (with no blood relationship) to love them, and we're supposed to love kids.

OP posts:
comfyoldcardi · 29/12/2023 23:24

This makes me very uneasy. A relative met someone exactly like this at her church. He turned out to be a paedophile. It is difficult to know. We didn't find out till years later.

HardcoreLadyType · 29/12/2023 23:28

Speak to the women.

My DH and I know a man who is very sleazy. Unnecessary touching. When I was younger, he would tell me stories about much younger women he had had affairs with. That sort of thing.

Every woman I mention him to thinks he is sleazy. The men don’t, because he doesn’t do it to them.

Obviously being sleazy to a 25yo woman is very different to grooming a child, but it’s the women who will have noticed and felt uncomfortable around this man. The men (like your DH) may well not see it.

Esmerelda2024 · 29/12/2023 23:29

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Abouttoblow · 29/12/2023 23:37

I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who thought this guy's abhorrent, sleazy behaviour is OK.
I suppose it's not your responsibility to deal with this creep but if you ditch your BF, who doesn't have an issue with it, it won't be your problem anymore.

Poppinjay · 29/12/2023 23:38

This man is a classic groomer.

He is pushing the boundaries in plain sight to establish that he can do so without being challenged. As everyone learns to accept his behaviour as 'just how he is', he then has the opportunity to gradually escalate it while, at the same time being utterly lovely to everyone in the group and making himself indispensible in every way he possibly can. This is a strategy designed to make people feel too guilty to call him out on his behaviour when it becomes more obviously unacceptable.

He is even using sexualised language around the children so that, if one of them reports something he has said to them in private, he can claim they just overheard one of the jokes everyone hears him telling the adults.

This could have been a case study from the safeguarding courses I've attended. It's like red-flag bingo!

I agree that you should have a word with the focus child's parents. One of them may already feel uneasy but, without safeguarding training, isn't recognising the clear red flags and is supressing their instincts for the benefit of the group dynamics. This is something child-abusers rely on.

Maybe show your partner this thread so he can at least be aware of the high level of risk and help make sure that the man isn't left alone with any of the children.

Hopingforholidayhelp · 29/12/2023 23:42

The sexual jokes…. Desensitising and testing the water

StrawberryWater · 29/12/2023 23:46

He's a creep.

Probably a dangerous one too.

Speak to the child's mother.

Codlingmoths · 29/12/2023 23:46

You don’t have to keep adult friends away from children for gods sake. It is pedophilic sexually predatory behaviour to make sexual jokes to/in front of children, you don’t have to excuse it with I know he’s not a pedophile. You don’t.

Original poster
balsamshill · 29/12/2023 23:52

Codlingmoths · 29/12/2023 23:46

You don’t have to keep adult friends away from children for gods sake. It is pedophilic sexually predatory behaviour to make sexual jokes to/in front of children, you don’t have to excuse it with I know he’s not a pedophile. You don’t.

I do personally think there is no reason adults who don't have relation or responsibility to/for a child should be alone with that child.

It's like handing someone a bowl of 100 M&Ms, but one of them is poison. You still gonna have a handful of M&Ms?

OP posts:
Devonshiregal · 29/12/2023 23:53

So at first (putting aside the is he/isnt he a paedo thing) I thought you were a bit ott protective…like you never take your kids to a party?

im the crazy paranoid school mum but I obviously would take my kids to a party? I’d not let them run loose like everyone else seems to though.

BUT then as your posts have gone on I’m starting to wonder if you’re missing something. Like you’re naive (normal level naive) and you are missing something going on under your nose.

it all sounds super weird. A large friendship group who join randomly (how are they introduced?), have wild drug taking parties at what I’m assuming is one of their big houses? And sit there whilst sex jokes are repetitively made in front of their kids? Letting the kids go off with friends in the hour for periods of time?

I know it sounds extreme but are you sure they’re not all a bit dark? is it some kind of weird sex thing?

Does your husband do drugs? What’s happening at these parties? What did the mum with toddler on lap make when he said this sex joke? How do they all know each other? So many questions

Lovemybunnies · 29/12/2023 23:55

I used to work in criminal law. So many children were abused in house party or sleepover scenarios. I am very strict about what my DC do and who with as a result and I know my friends ( and my DC) think I am paranoid but I don’t care as I am protecting them.

Jl2014 · 30/12/2023 00:01

Trust your gut, OP. It’s time to find your voice.

TheMoreYouKnow · 30/12/2023 00:02

Trust your gut. Ask him to repeat what he said if he says anything sexual again. It should make him feel uncomfortable. Say that you don't think it's appropriate as it might be repeated by the dcs there. Don't let this go. He's grooming everyone. This is how Jimmy Saville started off.

Original poster
balsamshill · 30/12/2023 00:04

Devonshiregal · 29/12/2023 23:53

So at first (putting aside the is he/isnt he a paedo thing) I thought you were a bit ott protective…like you never take your kids to a party?

im the crazy paranoid school mum but I obviously would take my kids to a party? I’d not let them run loose like everyone else seems to though.

BUT then as your posts have gone on I’m starting to wonder if you’re missing something. Like you’re naive (normal level naive) and you are missing something going on under your nose.

it all sounds super weird. A large friendship group who join randomly (how are they introduced?), have wild drug taking parties at what I’m assuming is one of their big houses? And sit there whilst sex jokes are repetitively made in front of their kids? Letting the kids go off with friends in the hour for periods of time?

I know it sounds extreme but are you sure they’re not all a bit dark? is it some kind of weird sex thing?

Does your husband do drugs? What’s happening at these parties? What did the mum with toddler on lap make when he said this sex joke? How do they all know each other? So many questions

They're all party kids who knew each other from childhood and began to slowly grow up.

Some still take drugs, some don't, but NEVER around the children. They do drink around the kids though.

I take my kid to kid's parties, but why would I take him to an adult drinking session, in another adult's back garden, surrounded by other adults? When the only kids running round are that of the host.

Nope, not everyone makes sex jokes in front of children. This one man does. And it bothers me massively.

My husband isn't really a druggie. He works hard but doesn't play hard. He took acid a few times at a festival, will share a joint if someone is smoking, thinks class As are a waste of money, has only been horrendously drunk maybe once or twice this year and that was on planned nights out.

OP posts:
windywash · 30/12/2023 00:06

Abouttoblow · 29/12/2023 23:37

I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who thought this guy's abhorrent, sleazy behaviour is OK.
I suppose it's not your responsibility to deal with this creep but if you ditch your BF, who doesn't have an issue with it, it won't be your problem anymore.

Yes I was thinking the same, it would put me right off my partner

Bbq1 · 30/12/2023 00:08

Ugh, no that's odd and tbh would be if a woman was behaving like that too. I'd be keeping my kids away from him.

apapuchi · 30/12/2023 00:26

You are a good person, and your instincts are your friend. It's difficult. Call him out whenever he makes an inappropriate comment, keep your eyes on him and tell anyone who you think will listen and not just laugh or shrug it off to maintain the status quo with the group.

Not the same situation as it was a stranger, but I was sexually assaulted (touching) in mere seconds in a public place when I was six. My mam was nearby. It doesn't take much time or planning and this man has far more time and opportunity than most.

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 30/12/2023 00:26

When he starts having those talks privately woth the kids, they'll think it's normal as he does it when other grown ups are present and they never say anything.
Be the change OP.

ValerieMoore · 30/12/2023 00:30

It’s difficult to say really. It could just be he is naive and is just good with kids. It isn’t enough to do anything about is it but I think you should keep an eye on him.

WinterDeWinter · 30/12/2023 00:31

I think getting him to repeat it plus the Savile suggestion is a good one
'You what, X?'
and regardless of whether he responds or not follow up with 'WTF mate that's a bit Jimmy Saville isn't it? With the kids right here?'

I think it will be s much easier to say if you use casual language like that and a sort of exaggerated 'gross' meme-face, rather than 'X, I believe you are behaving inappropriatey around children.'

As with so many abusive situations, it really is about saying the words out loud, plain and clear. If everyone did that, so much would be different.

Mamanyt · 30/12/2023 00:34

Having grown up in a family that had what was euphemistically called a "funny uncle" (nothing to do with humor, there), I see so many red flags in this man's behavior that it stuns me a bit.

Given your tentative connection to the group, you've done the best thing that you can. You've told your DH, a "full member," of your concerns. Not sure what you can do beyond that. Raising concerns with the parents would likely result in you becoming something of a pariah, unfortunately. You definitely needed to tell someone central to the group of your concerns, and you did.

Now, most people, when something is brought to their attention, will start to look for signs that you are right or wrong, so we'll hope that your DH does this, and begins to see the same things that you are seeing. He can then approach his good friends. Should Something Terrible happen now, it is on your DH's head for not warning those who would listen to him where they would not have listened to you.

Grimpo · 30/12/2023 00:35

I think he also knows that I know the creepy shit he's said about me (my partner told me).

Does your partner acknowledge that it was creepy shit? If so, can he explain why he still finds this man wonderful? Particularly given that he's also heard him talking about sexual things in front of children, and has presumably also seen his needy behaviour around one child in particular?

I must say, I'm not sure I could stay in a relationship with a man who hero-worships a friend who behaves this way and who wouldn't defend me to the hilt if someone said creepy things about me. That ,combined with sticking with what sounds like at best a very immature, irresponsible and downright stupid friendship group, would seriously make me question whether I really wanted any more of his company.

Selok · 30/12/2023 00:40

None of this sounds right. I would raise my concerns with others in the group too and stay away from him

determinedtomakethiswork · 30/12/2023 00:40

I can't understand how you didn't call him out. Honestly, you need to find your inner rage. Secondly, I can't see why you're with your partner as he sounds almost as bad. Anyone who hero worships some sick fuck isn't worth being with.

FeetupTvon · 30/12/2023 00:43

He is grooming people in plain sight.
OP- ensure you go to the parties, stay until the end, follow him around if you need to, let him know you are onto him. When he makes sick jokes be the one to pull him up on it, befriend the others, earn their trust so that you can start telling them not to trust him around their children, set the tone going forward, I guarantee you’re not the only one who feels like this but you ARE the one who needs to speak up. Drive this man mad with you constantly watching him and looking over his shoulder, make him despise you as you ruin his plan. Tell him “I think the child finds you creepy” when he is seeking the child’s attention. Don’t stop until he does. I guarantee he will stop attending the parties. Be the children’s voice, be their advocate.