AIBU to think there's something weird about this?

[balsamshill]

We have a male friend in his 30s, our friend group is a mixture of people from their early 20s to early 40s, very large, some with kids some without.

I can't tell whether it's just him being a total narcissist or something deeper.
He is obsessed with spending time with friend's kids and getting them to like him. He's not got kids of his own, hasn't tried, has a partner who doesn't want them yet.

He is just constantly making jokes around them and is very gleeful around making sexual comments (not child related) in front of the children, he loves being Uncle _, shows the most attention to one particular child and wants this child to think he's amazing, etc.

I'm probably just looking too deep into this, but it does seem strange that he's so desperate for this child, someone else's child, to absolutely love him. The child isn't massively receptive. I feel like even though he's probably a good guy, when she grows up she'll probably think he's a bit strange too.

Even women aren't this desperate for other people's children (with no blood relationship) to love them, and we're supposed to love kids.

Share an example of what he has said that made you think it wasnt right

Let this be a challenge for you to find your voice. Op I’m a fairly anxious conflict avoidant person too. However I have found surprising strength when I have had something I feel passionate about to fight for. In your shoes I’d get DH on side with not accepting his behaviour anymore and prep a response that you can use for him. it could be something as simple as “wow that was an incredibly weird and creepy thing to say. I’m gonna head to have a drink with the others outside”.

That’s if you even want to keep being near him. You could choose to not attend places he is at?

Can you speak to the friends partner quietly. Ask what she thinks of his jokes? Maybe together you can feel more certain that his behaviour isn’t ok.

I think he also knows that I know the creepy shit he's said about me (my partner told me).

And your partner is still friends with this man?

My partner was sitting next to me the whole time, and another quieter lad in the group joined us about 20 minutes later and he was still going on like an arse. Mind you, he was driving so hadn't even had a full beer at this point.

So me, my partner, the quieter lad we know (who is quite similar to me with regard to nerves, anxiety), the children's mother and the children were there.

No one should be letting him anywhere near their children. Hope to god hes never alone with them

Ew, 7% say yabu, some people think this OK behaviour! Very worrying behavior and totally creepy

HUGE red flags 🚩

Yes, he said he's nice once you get to know him and would do anything for his friends.

I told my partner this man reminds me of my (mentally ill, not here anymore) Dad - VERY superficial and glib, slimy, there's nothing underneath the charm act. Manipulative, cheeky, overtly sexual. My dad was not a pedophile, by any means, furthest thing from it, but he did have this painful need inside of him, a void if you will. He needed to be liked. He needed animals to love him. He needed kids to think he was cool as fuck. He needed women AND men to find him interesting and attractive.

So that's part of the reason why I was on the fence about this man - but what I do know is that as shitty of a man my Dad was, and how desperate and sad he was, he never actively wanted to spend extended amounts of time with children or have them sit on his lap. He didn't even like me. He just wanted people to think he was cool.

I'd flag it with the police personally to see if they could put anything in place to protect the children, if that's possible and tell their parents your concerns asap

I choose not to be around that man anyway, I actually told my partner to never leave me alone with him because I think he's the kind of man who would 100% try something on with a friend's partner. But I think next time these parents throw a party and the children will be there, which will be in a few months as soon as the weather is above 12c they have the garden open and the bar stocked, I will be there.

If nobody else chooses to not be blinded by decades of friendship, my eyes will be wide open. I'm the only one not from the town they live in, I'm the only one they haven't known since they were kids.

I would firstly tell the police. This will go down as intelligence. It will either be ignored or developed depending on what else the police have on their systems and what they assess the risk as. At the more extreme end, if the man has a conviction for anything relevant, the police may decide to make a disclosure to the other parents.

Accusations of paedophilia have a bad habit of spiralling. Completely innocent people can be harmed as a result, sometimes fatally, for no crime other than being 'weird'. From what you've said, this does sound really concerning but just bear that in mind. If you feel the need to warn others, make it about the behaviour, not the person, and don't speculate on why they're doing it.

The other thing to do is just challenge the behaviour. Just calmly pointing out that the joke is inappropriate around children might be enough to get other parents to think harder about their children's safety and this man (if he's innocent) to change his behaviour. If he's a real predator, he may back off if he thinks he's been rumbled.

He'll make sexual jokes about their mother in front of her, in front of the children and she just kind of awkwardly laughs.
What the actual fuck??
how about: it is never ever cool to make sexual jokes in front of children, ESPECIALLY about their mum. And sweetly: you need to stop this or someone will report you to the police. I’d think about it if you said that in front of my children.
i know it’s not your group but this guy is a slimy fucking creep, and your dh has a huge problem.

I think it would be totally reasonable to quietly ask the partner if they are ok about this, as you don’t think its ok.

Poor woman!! I wonder what she thinks about this? Maybe loads of you are too scared to say anything.

The op has woken up - but it's so hard to speak out loudly in situations like this, which is one reason why so much abuse goes on even when people know about it.

Anxiety is crippling. @balsamshill it's brave to push yourself forward, and flag this up. Find courage in the fact that it's a duty, it needs to be done and you're safeguarding small children.

Speak to the NSPCC for advice.

I've overcome crippling shyness, where I literally couldn't speak (unless replying) if I wanted to. If I were confronted with a man like him I would say loudly and directly - no beating around the bush - "That's completely inappropriate around small children."

I would follow it up with "don't say things like that around minors, it's inappropriate and makes people uncomfortable"

Don't budge on it, don't laugh or giggle out of nerves. Don't look away. Say it clear and let your directness make the heavier point. Be stubborn if challenged.

Practise in the mirror, in the car, in the shower...just practice saying the words out loud (a bit like preparing for a presentation).

Keep your breathing level and regular, it'll help.

If you're right in picking up that the mother was uncomfortable with him too then others should back you up.

If there's any chance he's doing it for attention, then you'll make sure he's pulled up on it. And hopefully it will draw attention to his desperation to be around children.

If he deliberately continues, like some men I know when pulled up on sexist comments, tell him it makes him sound like Saville (or "is that your Saville impression?") That will hopefully go over the heads of any listening children, while making your meaning crystal clear.

A few more posts since I typed my reply! Eww! If the man's not a peadophile he's definitely a bully. Changes what he says depending on who's present? Massive 🚩

Definitely tell the police and call him out. If it all blows up in your face sounds like you'd be best off out of this social group anyway.

It sounds more like low self-esteem that he’s overcompensated for his whole life by acting out, being outrageous so that he’s adored. Most of us want to be liked…not adored. And 5/6 is the perfect age to get adoration too - the toddler’s too young and older kids are starting to think and question.
The sexual comments thing sounds less like he gets off on sexualising kids and more like a power thing in front of the friend’s wife - ‘I can say this and you can’t stop me, even if it’s inappropriate. Whatcha gonna do about it?’ Did they ever have a thing before she married her husband? Regardless, I’d still keep an eye on him as it’s really fucking weird.
He sounds very, very sad because, like your dad, I think he’s unlikely to ever really get what he’s looking for. Peace and contentment that he is enough, just as he is.

It's ok to trust your gut in these situations.

Yes. I don't want to be that person.

My brother's son went to school with a boy who's father was caught on one of these pedo stings. Of course, he did have the conversation with the decoy, it was there in black and white - but he was never convicted, to everyone else's knowledge he had never harmed a child, but he killed himself.

Obviously pedos are fucking horrible and should be punished, but I'm not one of these hardcore, take no prisoners, anyone who acts a bit weird should be hung for being a nonce kinds.

I'm more about 'keep grown adult friends away from your children'. 'Don't let people who watch your kids expose your kids to random people you don't even know.' 'Don't give your 8 year old an iPhone' rather than 'HE CHATTED UP A 17 YEAR OLD GIRL, HE'S A NONCE, KILL HIM'.

Follow your gut...

On the back of the loo door at work there is a poster that says
"Silence fixed it for Jim"

Find your voice OP. For the kids.

The whole friend group sounds like a bunch of weird enablers, quite honestly. Liking kids is one thing, but making sexual jokes around them, isolating and grooming just one child, making other adults uncomfortable...look, this is right out of the nonce playbook. He is grooming you and the rest of the group as well as the children.

My advice, FWIW, is to speak to the mother of the child in private. Tell her that you don't see Friend's behaviour as innocent, but as a but concerning. If you really feel you have to beat about the bush a bit, tell her that you're concerned that other people might get the wrong idea about how hyper-focused Friend is on Child.

Also, bloody call him out! If he makes inappropriate jokes around the children, say something!

However, "keep adult friends away from your children " is pretty weird as well. How about just, call out inappropriate behaviour?

Most of the girlfriends, partners and wives in the group are younger, it's the men who all know each other and they're all in their late 20s, 30s, and early 40s, it just depends on how long you've been around if you end up part of the group or not. It's pretty cliquey.

I don't drink or do drugs, so I don't go on their debauched outings, so as far as some of them are concerned, I'm not 'in' in. There's a few older couples with kids who've now taken a step back, but these parents in question haven't and still partake when life permits it.

If this goes on, I can think of two or three people I'd maybe bring it up to if needed.

A bit OT, but in general I think a lot of men see their friends with rose tinted glasses, and some either don't realise until they have daughters themselves how creepy men can be, or they choose to be in denial that they were ever that vile and ever let creepy shit slide.

I have been treat like shit by men since I was a teenager and my partner knows about every incident, it boils my blood that when I spot behaviour I see as a red flag, even when I preface it with 'it's a bit weird, and he's probably a perfectly good guy but-' he's confused as hell that a good guy like him could ever know someone crappy.

I told him, one in four women have faced sexual violence. You know me. Who else do you think you know? For those one in four women, there's gotta be a rapist too. How many rapists could you know?