Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bye bye bigot MIL

559 replies

222333Annie · 29/12/2023 03:44

My MIL has always had questionable views on things but I’ve always for the most part not engaged with her as she is the kind of idiot it’s impossible to reason with.

now I have a DS (10 months) .On Xmas day, she said most disgraced celebs are innocent and women “put themselves into these situations” she used a number of racial slurs Infront of my family (my parents are immigrants and my brother in law / nieces are people of colour )

she then proceeded to tell me I read “ too much science ” when raising my son and her way (the old fashioned way) is the only way.To which my mother replied current guidelines are based on research to reduce SIDS so cannot be a bad thing.

I guess my point here is.Can I really have an anti feminist,racists science denier around my son? She is from the boomer generation but still…?Husband says he supports cutting down contact if she says things like this around him when he is older but obviously cannot completely disown his mum.In an ideal world,I would never mix with someone so ridiculous so at a loss as to how to handle it.She is also very angry she will not be assisting me with childcare when I return to work .Obviously all of the above is the reason why.Should I get DH to explain this to her?

OP posts:
Whenthebirdssing · 29/12/2023 10:06

HRTFT and only manage half of your posts OP because I got incredibly angry on your behalf.

You have explained your baby boomer comment so many times. It’s fine.

What isn’t fine is racism. EVER! Your MiL as a fascist should not be anywhere near your biracial child or you. Being a baby boomer (and therefore often holding a whole heap of privilege) is not the same as racism. They are very different due to the historical context and systemic racism experienced.

Keep away. Your DH should keep them away too and state clearly the reasons why.

Pelham678 · 29/12/2023 10:06

Rosscameasdoody · 29/12/2023 08:54

There is no defence of racism and homophobia. It wasn't a universal experience in the 70s.

You only have to look at some of the prime time TV programming of the time to know that this just isn’t true. Til death do us part, love thy neighbour, the black and white minstrel show, and many more of what passed as comedy/light entertainment shows of the time will never see the light of day again because of their racist/sexist/homophobic content. Same for the likes of stand up comedian acts of the day such as Bernard Manning and Bob Monkhouse. It might be uncomfortable to admit, but casual racism was everywhere.

Yes but it doesn't believe we went along with it or liked that kind of thing. Benny Hill was a sexist comedian, there were tons of them: do you think because of that that I thought it was great for middle aged men to chase young women wearing a short skirt dressed as a nurse?

We have a home secretary that joked about sedating his wife. Do you think that means we all think that's acceptable? We have police officers that keep their jobs after committing crimes. Do you think we all think that's okay? You can't point to aspects of society and infer that everyone in that social grouping believes it's fine.

There are still lots of people with racist views in the UK. They aren't all older people. And you can definitely not say that all people over 60 have racist views.

Nanny0gg · 29/12/2023 10:06

222333Annie · 29/12/2023 04:15

Oh sorry that was not meant to be offence ! I mean her generation had a completely different set of parenting guidelines so I can see how she struggles watching the things we do

Bollocks.

I'm nearly 70 and I managed fine to understand what the guidelines were when my DGC were born.
This ageism crap has got to stop

Also, surely you knew what she was like from when you first met her. Why haven't you and your husband already decided what you need to do about her attitude?

Libertyy · 29/12/2023 10:08

I wonder whether the people telling OP she needs to compromise would be saying the same if the nana was Asian or black talking about white people? Suddenly the leniency is no longer there and we can no longer accept that…interesting.

Nanny0gg · 29/12/2023 10:08

222333Annie · 29/12/2023 04:33

Well like most people on here who talk about MIL she has really upped the anti since I’ve had the baby I didn’t realise she was this bad.She told me how are we going to explain to my son how disgusting gays are and I told her we will certainly not be saying that to him .Im not ageist lol I was simply pointing out her generations parenting standards were not like mine and maybe sometimes she’s not politically correct due to age to make sense of her behaviour. my mum is older than her and completely not like that.Its not ageist it’s ok to point out generational differences.Yall are touchy

When you're in a hole, stop digging

Racism and anti-gay feelings and all sorts of other bias also occur in younger generations.

She's clearly just a cow. And has been forever

DewHopper · 29/12/2023 10:09

waterdusky · 29/12/2023 07:57

Really? What about golly wogs? They were a pound a penny back in the day. What about black face on TV and as costumes used as humour? Casual racism was rife and seen as a joke.

And now look where we are...

...woman face is fiercely promoted and defended and people seem to think that if a man wears makeup and a dress that he magically becomes a woman!

Misogyny is more open and widespread than I have ever known it and using the actual word 'woman' is becoming considered to be a hate crime.

Little girls and women are having to put up with creepy men in their loos and changing rooms and are labelled bigots if they complain - so progressive!

Men in woman face win our awards, our sports events and our 'woman of the year awards' - all feted and lauded by useful idiots who hate women.

If you don't agree with this ludicrous ideology you are considered to be a non-progressive bigot. One say we shall look back on this time as a very dark time for women and girls and wonder how we ever allowed it to happen.

Zarah123 · 29/12/2023 10:10

NotBadConsidering · 29/12/2023 09:55

Her husband is a grown man. He doesn’t need the OP “facilitating” anything 🙄.

And he isn't racist despite growing up with a racist mother, so it’s perfectly reasonable to consider the child will be fine with being around her from time to time.

Edited

It was the poster who said OP should facilitate this, so maybe go roll your eyes at her.

If he’s happy for his child to be around racists then he’s just as bad.

Men don’t automatically become non-racist just because they have a BAME partner.

Whenthebirdssing · 29/12/2023 10:10

Carmargo · 29/12/2023 09:49

OP, face facts.
You cannot reasonably have NO contact with her.
If she would otherwise be a good grandparent you should foster your son's relationship with her and educate your son that granny has some outdated views.
Your dh presumably loves his mother, too.
Again, you should facilitate that.

But you have as little to do with her as possible. Low contact.

The idea you're going to love your mil as a matter of course is bullshit. Some do most, don't.

I mean this well but you have to compromise.

That's what I've done.

Rubbish. If the OP is of mixed heritage and MIL is racist she has every right to go no contact!!

waterdusky · 29/12/2023 10:12

DewHopper · 29/12/2023 10:09

And now look where we are...

...woman face is fiercely promoted and defended and people seem to think that if a man wears makeup and a dress that he magically becomes a woman!

Misogyny is more open and widespread than I have ever known it and using the actual word 'woman' is becoming considered to be a hate crime.

Little girls and women are having to put up with creepy men in their loos and changing rooms and are labelled bigots if they complain - so progressive!

Men in woman face win our awards, our sports events and our 'woman of the year awards' - all feted and lauded by useful idiots who hate women.

If you don't agree with this ludicrous ideology you are considered to be a non-progressive bigot. One say we shall look back on this time as a very dark time for women and girls and wonder how we ever allowed it to happen.

Are you on drugs? How is any of that related to what I wrote?
Fwiw, my SISTER is a transWOMAN and I whole-heartedly support HER! SHE is clearly a much nicer human than you are.

Celeriacisquitenice · 29/12/2023 10:12

AppleChristsBirthdayMacchiato · 29/12/2023 09:50

White privilege means that you experience benefits compared to a non-white person in an identical situation.

White privilege does not and has never meant "all white people automatically have it easier than all non-white people." That's ignorance of what the phrase means.

I'll never forget reading a comment on here saying, "white privilege doesn't exist because an upper class black boy from a wealthy, uni-educated family would have an easier time than a working class white boy who grew up in care." That's not what white privilege is. White privilege is looking at the difference between two upper class wealthy boys (one white and one black) or two working class care leavers (one white and one black).

For example, I'm Jewish and biracial but I have white skin. I experience racism due to being Jewish. I have white privilege because I very obviously get treated very differently from black Jews, who have to experience both antisemitism and anti-black racism.

From a 2017 study on discrimination in Ireland -

Compared to White Irish respondents, Black respondents are three times more likely to experience discrimination in the workplace and in access to public services, and over four times more likely to experience discrimination in access to private services. White non-Irish do not differ from White Irish respondents in reported discrimination in any domain; the workplace, seeking work, or in relation to public services.

Irish Travellers are almost ten times more likely than the White Irish group to experience discrimination in seeking work, and over twenty-two times more likely to experience discrimination in access to private services.discrimination in access to private services.

The figures speak for themselves. Sometimes discrimination is not based on skin colour. Irish travellers, who are white, do not have white privilege, in Ireland at least.

Nanny0gg · 29/12/2023 10:13

Flowerpowera7 · 29/12/2023 04:54

you might be right but according to oxford dictionary thats a name for certain age range. I did not know it has negative connotations until just now.

Just wait till Millennials and Gen Z get old.

They'll be treated the same

DewHopper · 29/12/2023 10:13

And before anyone tells me that I am excusing racism - I am not. I grew up in the 70s and my family were anti racist then and remain anti racist now. Yes there was some horrible racism and it was far more out in the open than it is now but please do not think that everyone of that generation thought it was ok - we absolutely did not and many of us fought it hard.

DewHopper · 29/12/2023 10:14

waterdusky · 29/12/2023 10:12

Are you on drugs? How is any of that related to what I wrote?
Fwiw, my SISTER is a transWOMAN and I whole-heartedly support HER! SHE is clearly a much nicer human than you are.

Oh the fucking irony! 😂

Nanny0gg · 29/12/2023 10:15

222333Annie · 29/12/2023 04:55

I will take this advice for the future as I did not mean offence should I just have said older or her age ? Not brought her age into it all? Surely it could be a factor as to why we have different views on parenting ? Times and guidelines have changed

Yes, they have.

And many, many 'older' people understand this. They might not agree with all the changes as some of them will be discredited in years to come and 'older' ways will come back

But it's not an 'age' thing. It can be an 'attitude' thing or an 'intelligence' thing or for many other reasons.

But you can't pigeonhole people by age

Whenthebirdssing · 29/12/2023 10:15

Libertyy · 29/12/2023 09:16

And i wouldn’t put about race on aibu either, try the black mumsnetter or south Asian boards instead

Why? It’s a discussion we should all be having. Racism is everybody’s business and everybody’s responsibility to challenge it. Robustly.

Nanny0gg · 29/12/2023 10:17

222333Annie · 29/12/2023 05:15

And use racists language ? Says sexual abuse never happens,does’t support keeping my child safe from SIDS ??? Confused how people on here think this is an appropriate way to speak your mind

Out of interest, how old is she?

Because I think her views are down to upbringing and ignorance with a large dose of stupidity.

NotBadConsidering · 29/12/2023 10:17

Zarah123 · 29/12/2023 10:10

It was the poster who said OP should facilitate this, so maybe go roll your eyes at her.

If he’s happy for his child to be around racists then he’s just as bad.

Men don’t automatically become non-racist just because they have a BAME partner.

The OP said her DH isn’t. It’s ridiculous to pretend someone can just remove their mother from their lives entirely like that. Life isn’t that simple.

LaMarschallin · 29/12/2023 10:18

Karwomannghia · 29/12/2023 10:02

She’s already said she said 70s by accident. So yes you’re misunderstanding. And the 80s weren’t that different with dr spock etc anyway.

Fair enough.
I suppose it was the repetition of "70s" that made me think she was being accurate, as she also said:

would have been very different in the 70s hence why I reasoned maybe she doesn’t understand

But mistakes happen.

Wasn't Dr Spock's book published in 1946?

Carmargo · 29/12/2023 10:18

Zarah123 · 29/12/2023 09:53

OP should facilitate her husband and son having contact with a racist grandmother? What planet are you on? Planet white?

Look people are complicated, we all have our flaws.
I'm not saying OP should have anything other than minimal contact with her.
I don't with mine.
I gauge how important a family event is to other members of dh's family and if it is, I go for their sakes.
If it's not, I don't.

I don't see how the solution is anything other than low contact.

Dh loves his mother so I help him see her. I avoid her as much as I can.
She's not well. I understand he has to see her. I won't.
Her being ill does not negate her treatment of me and I will not kowtow to her.

It's called being a grown-up.

mollyfolk · 29/12/2023 10:18

The parenting stuff is very common I think. My MIL took great issue with me breastfeeding- it was fine for a few weeks but wasn’t “strong” enough for a big baby. When I mentioned the advice she would laugh and say what do doctors know. 😩I would just learn to smile and nod and change the subject about this. My children are past the baby stage and it’s easier now.

i’d be more worried about the racism. We have a very racist aunt that we have to go see sometimes - and afterwards I tell the kids what she said was wrong and why. I probably would get your DH to have a word about the language she uses.

Karwomannghia · 29/12/2023 10:21

LaMarschallin · 29/12/2023 10:18

Fair enough.
I suppose it was the repetition of "70s" that made me think she was being accurate, as she also said:

would have been very different in the 70s hence why I reasoned maybe she doesn’t understand

But mistakes happen.

Wasn't Dr Spock's book published in 1946?

Yes it was but reprinted many times and my mum used it in 70s and 80s. Sounds like she was a different type of mum to OPs mil thought.

AppleChristsBirthdayMacchiato · 29/12/2023 10:21

Again, that is not what "white privilege" means.

It means a white person would experience better treatment than a non-white person IN THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES. So you can't compare travellers to non-travellers, but to travellers who are white to travellers who are non-white.

Anyway race is a social-cultural (and often legal) construct as much as it's about skin tone. Different countries legally class race in different ways. The US Supreme Court has heard various cases from individuals who have fought a case to be declared legally white. There have even been cases of black people being declared legally white!

White supremacy is based on a lot more than just "anyone with light skin." Under slavery in the USA, anyone with a black ancestor was considered to be "half caste" and eligible to be made a slave, when they likely would have looked visibly very white. The Nazis considered anyone with any Jewish heritage to be Jewish. Look up the one drop rule. Or the wonderful stage play An Octaroon.

For example, people always bring up Jews as some kind of gotcha that racism doesn't exist, since look, white people being victim to racism! Well first that ignores that plenty of Jews don't have white skin. But the fundamental issue here is that white supremacy does not consider ANY Jew to be white, regardless of the colour of their skin.

None of this is to dismiss the amount of anti-blackness in the world, or the ways that colourism intersect with racism, or the experiences of dark complected black people. But to say that racism doesn't exist or that white privilege doesn't exist just because some light skinned people also experience racism is to show utter ignorance of what white privilege actually means.

Rosscameasdoody · 29/12/2023 10:21

Pelham678 · 29/12/2023 10:06

Yes but it doesn't believe we went along with it or liked that kind of thing. Benny Hill was a sexist comedian, there were tons of them: do you think because of that that I thought it was great for middle aged men to chase young women wearing a short skirt dressed as a nurse?

We have a home secretary that joked about sedating his wife. Do you think that means we all think that's acceptable? We have police officers that keep their jobs after committing crimes. Do you think we all think that's okay? You can't point to aspects of society and infer that everyone in that social grouping believes it's fine.

There are still lots of people with racist views in the UK. They aren't all older people. And you can definitely not say that all people over 60 have racist views.

Where have I said any of that ? Of course not everyone was open to the same exposure and not everyone would be influenced by it. But undoubtedly many were, and some of that influence is still around today. MN is famous for the viewpoint ‘if I haven’t experienced it it doesn’t exist’.

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 29/12/2023 10:22

@Mylovelycow absolutely. I'm a boomer and will actively stand up to racism, misogyny and homophobia.
I could not engage with this woman. OP, what does your son say?

Nanny0gg · 29/12/2023 10:22

Ffsmakeitstop · 29/12/2023 05:31

I cannot believe people are jumping on the op for "ageism" instead of giving useful advice for dealing with a person with such horrible views.
It's always the same when someone mentions age whatever that age is ,"why is their age relevant?" Because it usually fucking is. It's not ageist to mention that a lot of people of a certain generation hold views that were acceptable, and yes racism was acceptable in certain quarters but it's certainly not now.
I would keep your distance op.

So don't tell me that Gen Z aren't fed up with being accused of being 'woke' amongst other things

Generalisation in cases like this isn't useful.

The woman is herself and herself is unpleasant, racist and whatever else. THAT is the issue

Swipe left for the next trending thread