To ask what made you want to be a stay at home parent?

[Hjjo]

ds is 13 months. I feel like it’s constant and it won’t ever stop will it? He’s not even difficult. He’s a placid baby mostly. I’m just so bored. I feel terrible but I want to be at work and just away from the nappies and the routine and the non stop demands. I feel terrible for being able to be a sahm but not wanting to :(

@SouthLondonMum22 why is it but lets not pretend that it has nothing to do with sexist gender stereotypes. to want to be a SAMH? as I think @Jessiepaintyourpicture said I had a job NOT a career (like most men and women who work) and was more than happy to give it up to be a SAMH to our 4 kids. I found that a lot more fulfilling than doing boring admin work in an office. Yes my DH was a high earner and we could afford luxuries and a very good lifestyle on one salary and I accept that we had a 'traditional' arrangement but it suited us and the family just fine. As I said in a previous posts I think more mothers (😱) would stay at home and look after the children if finances allowed. I was lucky and feel privileged to have been able to do it that's all. No regrets.😄

Because I'd get into debt putting her in nursery

Oh girl I'm the same some days, it gets better I promise

I was delighted to go to work leaving DC1 with DH when I returned to work and he was on SPL. Not only did I know DC was in very good hands, but it was enormously instructive for him and helped establish the foundation for a decade of genuinely equal parenting.

Because ‘traditional’ arrangements are based on sexist stereotypes. It’s no coincidence that you so happened to have a job rather than a career and your husband happened to have a high paid career, men are more likely to be higher paid again due to social conditioning based on sexism.

It can suit your family and you can be happy with it and find it fulfilling, of course you can but it doesn’t magically mean it isn’t based on sexist stereotypes either.

@Char65

As I said in a previous posts I think more mothers (😱) would stay at home and look after the children if finances allowed. I was lucky and feel privileged to have been able to do it that's all. No regrets.😄

This is where the sexism comes in. Your assumptions that a) most mothers have "jobs" while their husbands have "careers". And b) that most women, given the choice, would stay at home to look after children.

For the record I have no problem with people of either sex choosing to stay at home to care for their children if that's what they want and their finances allow for this. But the assumptions you and others make about this being "natural" or "biological" at heart are erroneous and borderline offensive. As PPs have said there's nothing biological about this whatsoever.

I have to work because I'm a lone parent and lone breadwinner so remaining with my children all day is absolutely not an option for me. But I would almost certainly choose to work even if I didn't have to, for numerous reasons but in large part because I love working.

People should choose what works for them. But it does concern me that a lot of posters on here seem to assume that mothers who work do so to observe some sort of contrarian feminist box-ticking exercise and that if they were truly honest with themselves they would give in to the inevitable and stay at home.

This irritates me at a personal level because there's absolutely no choice in it for me and it annoys me to be painted by randoms on the internet as a poor mother because I support my child. But it also worries me at a macro level that people assume that a woman who wants to work has no "maternal" instincts or some such rubbish. It's perfectly possible to both be very maternal and to want to earn your own money and get satisfaction from what you do.

Historically, it was the norm for women to do some work and for childcare to be shared within families. What is now described as the "traditional" set up (breadwinning man, SAH wife) is actually a fairly modern invention and one which was only really dominant as a model for about 30-40 years in the 20th century. It's a historical anomaly. Again, no problem if people want to run their lives like this. But it's upsetting and damaging when those of us who either can't or don't want to run our lives like this are told we are "unnatural" or that we are failing our children.

@Thepeopleversuswork This irritates me at a personal level because there's absolutely no choice in it for me and it annoys me to be painted by randoms on the internet as a poor mother because I support my child. But it also worries me at a macro level that people assume that a woman who wants to work has no "maternal" instincts or some such rubbish. It's perfectly possible to both be very maternal and to want to earn your own money and get satisfaction from what you do.

I'm not saying a woman is a bad parent or mother because they have to go to work to support their child or children, of course I'm not, that's an economic reality that faces many and if mothers want to continue careers that doesn't make them "bad mothers" either. Of course those mother's have a maternal instinct and want the best for their children. All I was saying was about choices and to voluntarily give up a job (which you didn't like - as is the case for many MEN as well as women) to look after your children, if you can afford to do it, to me, is a very worthwhile and rewarding thing to do and not sexist or fulfilling some stereotype.

Just because an individual finds something worthwhile or fulfilling doesn't also mean it's not also influenced by societal expectations or stereotypes.

We don't make decisions in a vacuum.

How come so few men choose to give up on the jobs they hate for the freeing joys of being a SAHP?

@Char65

I'm not saying a woman is a bad parent or mother because they have to go to work to support their child or children, of course I'm not, that's an economic reality that faces many and if mothers want to continue careers that doesn't make them "bad mothers" either.

I understand you're not saying that personally. Very few people are crass enough to come out and say "working mothers are bad parents". Even on Mumsnet people normally have more empathy than this. And when you point out you're a lone parent the SAHMS all fall over themselves to say "oh but it's not your fault, of course you have to work".

The thing is when you're in my position and there's this constant drip-drip of low level commentary about how optimal it is for mothers not to work it makes you feel isolated, belittled and judged. Obviously that's not your fault or your problem and I realise you haven't deliberately sought to make me feel like this.

But the rhetoric around how optimal it is for a woman to stay at home quite readily tips into "you're selfish if you don't stay at home" and "why would you want to leave your kids" and "why would you outsource your kids" etc. There are people on here who genuinely believe a working mother is a selfish, career oriented person who shouldn't have had children in the first place.

That matters for me at a personal level because it really upsets me to be judged by mothers who have more choice than I do (even though I am happy to work and enjoy working). But it matters more for all women who work because it perpetuates a set of negative assumptions about our motives, our capabilities and our love for our children. And particularly when there's no evidence that any of it is actually true.

It was torture at first, the neverending-ness of it all. But 10 years down the line and I love being here for the children, not having to stress about childcare cover, or leaving them on their own whilst I work on the computer from home (I was at home admin for a couple large nurseries for a time, shit pay, long hours, and no childcare cover meant everyone was strssed and fed up). I never had a career I wanted, otherwise I wouldn't have gone on to have three kids. The situation works well for us.

@Thepeopleversuswork "The thing is when you're in my position and there's this constant drip-drip of low level commentary about how optimal it is for mothers not to work it makes you feel isolated, belittled and judged."

I agree. The problem is it works the other way too. I got the constant drip of what a bad example I was, particularly to my daughter, how hard it was on my dp carrying the financial burden, wasn't I bored, how could I bear having such a little life, what an anti feminist I was...... I suppose it boils down to the old cliche "A woman's place is in the wrong"!

Financially neither DH or I need to work, let alone in full time careers. However I trained as an accountant and DH, a doctor and we continued with our careers after DT’s were born.
Unfortunately the criticism was levelled at me and not DH for continuing to work.

Unfortunately the criticism was levelled at me and not DH for continuing to work.

Me and DH worked at the same organisation when we had DS. I lost count how many people told me how awful it was that I'd had to return full time.
Nobody ever said that to DH.

Just like when I work away people ask me who is babysitting DS. Nobody ever asks DH that question.

I took DH and DS with me on a work trip recently and everyone assumed it was DH working not me 🙄

I agree @CurlewKate

There are plenty of lazy and horrible stereotypes about SAHMs to go around.

It's partly a woman's place being in the wrong but amped up by the fact that its rarely an objective discussion. Everyone brings to bear not just their perspective on what's "right" but their emotional baggage and their feelings of being judged by other parents. And very often their family's perspective on it. It's very difficult to have a dispassionate view.

If I try to take away my emotions from the debate (which isn't easy because I've spent nearly 13 years being on the receiving end of ill thought out and often spiteful comments about "farming out" my kid and I have become a bit defensive): I think the only things I would die in a ditch over are the following

• Are the children well cared for and happy? high-quality childcare with proper safeguarding, stimulation, their emotional needs met?
• Is the mother in question enjoying her life: does she feel she is missing out (either by being at work or not being at work? Is she stimulated and valued by her family?
• Does the mother (whether she's at work or at home) get proper domestic support from her spouse or partner? If the spouse claims he's "too busy" to help her because of his big important man job, then it's not working for either of them. I know some women claim to be fine with that division of labour but I think a very traditional split is rarely a great example for children and tends to devalue the woman's role within the household.
• Is the mother afforded sufficient financial protection in her role, either as a SAHM or a WOHM which means that should her husband run off with someone else or should she lose her job she won't be left with no means of support? In practice this usually means either having to have some income or being married. Often both.

If those criteria are mainly met then I couldn't give a tinker's cuss what mothers do with their work or childcare arrangements.

But I still find that day in day out I see casual throwaway remarks designed to disparage me for "farming out" my kid to childcare and other such lazy insults. And until these stop I will keep pushing back against them and calling out people who come up with half-baked ideas about "biology".

And SAHMs who feel equally insulted and belittled by WOHMs should and probably will do the same. One day we might get there.

Yet some people are convinced it has nothing to do with sexism. 🙄

DH and I work for the same company too, I earn more than him and was still asked if I was going back to work. No one told DH it 'made sense' for him to be a SAHP because he doesn't earn as much as me.

I wasn't even considered for a work trip when DS was younger because they didn't think I'd want to leave my baby. I asked if all of the men had been given the same consideration and ultimately received an apology.

I can't even be out at the weekend or whatever without DS and bump into someone I know without them asking where he is. DH says no one ever asks him when he's out alone.

@CurlewKate

But I still find that day in day out I see casual throwaway remarks designed to disparage me for "farming out" my kid to childcare and other such lazy insults. And until these stop I will keep pushing back against them and calling out people who come up with half-baked ideas about "biology".

And likewise I gave up work (outside the home!) in 1990 and became a SAHM. We had our first DS in 1991 and then another 3 children and during the 1990's and 2000's I was constantly asked, mainly by other mothers (although also by some men and a lot of relations of both sexes), when or if I was 'planning' to go back to work and how I should do part time courses to keep my mind "active" (because of course looking after children full time - doesn't🙁!!). I even remember when our last child was born in 2000 a mother saying to me with a smile, "well he'll keep you tied to the home for another 5 years!" as if I'd planned it so it could stay at home! So as @Thepeopleversuswork says a "woman's place is in the wrong!"

This irritates me at a personal level because there's absolutely no choice in it for me and it annoys me to be painted by randoms on the internet as a poor mother because I support my child

Why do you care what randoms think? I've been accused on this thread of living off my husband but I don't care.

The OP asked why we chose to be SAHMs, some of us have answered and been criticised for it by pseudo feminists. I still don't care.

You and your child know if you're a good mum just as DC and I know I've been a good mum.

No one else matters.

And I mentioned "biology" as I think that's what makes it easier for a dad to be away from their children. DH is a fantastic, hands-on dad involved in every aspect of DC's upbringing and care but he was fine leaving them to go to work when they were little. I wasn't, so I didn't.

Yet my DH really struggled with going back to work after 4 weeks of paternity leave and I was more than ready to go back to work after 12 weeks of maternity leave.

People are just different, including men and women.

@Jessiepaintyourpicture

Why do you care what randoms think? I've been accused on this thread of living off my husband but I don't care.

I guess I care for two different groups of reasons: there’s the selfish reason that I don’t like being judged by other people who know nothing about me and who are in a position to make a choice which can’t make. Maybe that’s petty but it’s how I feel.

But less selfish reasons are what you would probably call “pseudo feminist” reasons and for me there’s nothing pseudo about it. I am a feminist and I am proud to be one.

• I fundamentally don’t believe that women who work make poorer mothers and I feel an obligation to defend the millions of women who work, whether through choice or circumstance. It makes all of our lives harder, both men and women, if we perpetuate the idea of biological determinism in relationships and make it harder for mothers to work than it needs to be.
• I think it’s hugely important for women to have some financial autonomy in their families. Plenty of women say it’s “family money” so it doesn’t matter who earns it but I’m afraid I don’t buy this. Marriage gives you some protection and a good husband whom you trust should not abuse your role as a domestic partner and mother but you are still, with all those protections, vulnerable if you don’t have any recourse to funds other than through your husband or the divorce process. I don’t quite accept that marriage is entirely sufficient
• I don’t think households split on “traditional” task lines set a particularly great example to children of either sex
• i love work and it’s hugely enriched my life, financially, emotionally and intellectually. I hate the idea that women are told that a job or career is a waste of their time and I hate the idea that young women will take this conclusion away from these conversations

I totally accept that for some women at some stages of their life, being at home with the children is the best outcome. Live and let live.

But for the reasons set out here I am not going to ignore it when people tell me my way of life is the poorer approach.

I agree with all of your points.

Well said.

I fundamentally don’t believe that women who work make poorer mothers

Nor do I. So that's something we agree on.

I don’t think households split on “traditional” task lines set a particularly great example to children of either sex

All my DC cared was that I was there to drop them at school at 8.45am rather than nursery or breakfast club at 7.30. And pick them up at 3pm rather than 6pm. And not have to send them to holiday clubs.

Now they see their mum working and earning and enjoying her job.. Just as I would've done if DH had legged it. I'm not daft.

They've had a good female role model as I'm sure your DC has.

Feminists are running riot on this thread.

Being a SAHM does not set a bad example to your children.

The majority of people endure rather than enjoy work.

The best carers for children are their actual parents not random nannies.

Most children miss their parents when they go to work.

Parents need to start putting their children's interests first, not their own. Stop obsessing about your financial interests/ independence over your children's best interests.

As for being somehow disadvantaged and beholden to your DH, don't worry, the UK has some of the most mum friendly family courts in the world, just threaten to leave and your DH will be very generous.

So too all the SAHMs out there, enjoy it, don't let the feminists make you feel guilty, lots of mums would love to do this given the choice, we only go to work because we need the money.

@youngones1 do you not believe women should have a choice?
As a proud feminist I believe women should have a choice and all of those choices are equally valid.