....to be unsurprised the BBC called the London Oratory a "prestigious private school" when it isn't?

[doorkeeper]

The London Oratory school is in the news because there's been a minor blaze there (nobody hurt) and a pupil has been taken in for questioning.

I was idly listening to PM on Radio 4, and they described the school as a "prestigious private school". Except it isn't, of course. It's a state-funded school. Except, again, it's functionally a free private school for posh and/or famous people that most ordinary mortals couldn't hope to get their kids into. I found this burst of accidental honesty from the BBC quite refreshing.

I'm sick of the posh London schools that are state-funded but that are effectively free private schools because of the way they massage their admissions. The now-disgraced former head of Holland Park School was taking HPS firmly in that direction, I know that a few other West London schools operate in the same way. I would love to see Ofsted - who were useless re the HPS scandal until it was too late - address this in some way. All children, even the ones whose parents aren't rich or famous, should have equal access to local schools, regardless of income, religion or parental connections.

AIBU to enjoy this bit of accidental honesty from the BBC?

I think that some people's definition of "ordinary people" on this thread is different from the rest of us.

Wrong! Euan Blair was already at the school before Blair was PM when the family lived in Islington. That is a very unusual distance to travel to School in London! He did indeed get in because Cherie was a practicing Catholic. From Downing Street it would not be so unusual. Also, the Cleggs lived in Putney, so again fairly local.

The area is fairly mixed, and anyway takes boys from far and wide as it prioritises practising Catholics. If you compare its intake with other local schools like Chelsea Academy or Hurlingham, you can see how different it is.

That is technically correct. However the provision of education that is paid for by parents is not really in the spirit of charity . https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05222/. In law charity must include provision of services to the ‘poor’. And it is here that many highly privileged rich private schools fail to do their duty and fail to justify their charitable status . On the other hand faith schools such as the Oratory provide excellent educational and culture opportunities to children who otherwise would never have access to them.

Ah, that I didn’t know. And therefore it makes a lot of sense. I had a few friends at the Oratory who lived all around London, some as far as Harrow, and it never occurred to me until this thread that they would have been a long way away. This, together with the siblings rule, does clarify it.

No, it’s parents that establish their own worthiness by getting the certificate of Catholic Practice from their priest which currently means attending church for 5 years. In effect, it seems more educated parents, some of whom will be rich, will fulfill the criteria.

Agree that in practice, Catholics living in H&F and neighbouring boroughs will be passed over for more worthy Catholic living further afield.

Sibling priority - so far so normal! Children of staff, less common but also happens in some schools. Oratory also prioritises siblings of former pupils and children of former pupils which definitely takes it into ‘old boys network’ territory!

It won’t! You can’t backdate 5 years of church attendance!

But is a state school?

and for completeness I think the London Oratory DOES have two feeder state primary schools - both of which are local-ish (Kensington?) plus its own music based v small primary school which is definitely an oddity.

This doesn't really map out the same in West London, where the London Oratory is. For whatever reason, the options if you are a (particular kind of) Catholic are much more plentiful and of a higher standard, than if you are not.

Catholic schools have always been good performance wise though vs other schools. The one I went to was great in the 90s and still is.

I wonder what the levels of bullying are like ,there is a school fairly .local.to me which is a C of E school.which has always been highly regarded. With good exam results etc
Most people unless they are regular church attendees and are able to afford to live within the catchment area don't have a hope in hell of getting their kids into the school
However the Last Ofsted placed the school into special measures due to the amount of bullying and lack of response from staff .

I’ve nephews who went to the oratory - early 20s now but as part of the admissions process they attended interviews which were very in depth about Catholic beliefs, theology and sacraments and their individual faith. The process went way beyond certs of attendance at Mass, eg they were asked about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Papal infallibility, details of the sacraments, how they prayed etc.

There are state schools and state schools though I can't imagine him sending them to any state school
But to be fair nobody really wants to send their kids to a school with a terrible reputation.

Plus 5 yrs of regular church attendance is quite a requirement. Most want 1-2 yrs evidence so that will exclude less committed Catholics including myself!

I also think a lot of parents panic when it comes to secondary & realise too late re Catholic eligibility. My priest always bemoans the amount of parents who turn up with a supplementary form asking him to fill it in. If he has never seen you before, doesn’t know you it’s a no.

You’re wrong, it’s currently 5 years attendance at any Catholic church.

@Trickleg there seems to be one listed on the admissions info.

When I watched it yesterday they said ‘selective catholic school’, which is accurate…

You’re wrong, it’s currently 5 years attendance at any Catholic church.

Yes, some catholic schools prioritise parishioners in their area others don’t.

I worked for many years in another of London's heavily over-subscribed supposed "free private schools".
All I can say is LOL to that.

Yes, the parents are more committed to their kids' education than average. A good number of middle class kids from affluent areas of the city who have met the admissions criteria but an equal number of kids from the very opposite kinds of homes, many hardworking first generation immigrants, with English as their second language. Some parents have very useful connections in business, industry and the professions, but some run the local corner shop or are postmen, TAs and nurses. Just ordinary hardworking families who value education. A handful give donations to school but the vast majority don't.

The problems of any state-funded school are there in abundance: big cuts to staffing and subject offering, difficulties with teacher recruitment and retention, crumbling buildings, low staff morale and high levels of sickness, cuts to extra-curriculars; by the time I left in 2022 everything was depressingly pared to the bone compared to what it had been when I joined in 2010.

In the case of Tony Blair, then living in Islington, are you saying the more local Catholic schools were lacking in Catholic ethos?

He didn't need to virtue signal once he was out of office. I wonder if his younger daughter is state educated. Suspect not.

The London Oratory School wasn't quite good enough for one of Harriet Harman's sons who went to a Kent grammar school instead. Despite Labour being against such schools. It caused quite a stir at the time but she said her son was too bright for a comprehensive or some such twaddle.

There was long and drawn out battle with OSA back in 2014/2015. The Oratory (LOS) won some aspects and lost others (they did need to change their policy but not as significantly as OSA had suggested prior to the appeal). Here is an article that highlights the points of contention:

www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/child-protection/392-children-protection-news/19272-london-school-in-multiple-breaches-of-admissions-code-says-adjudicator.

Whilst the policy is clearly compliant with the admissions code, it is very effective in creating an intake that is different to the other catholic boys schools in West London. For example, Gunnersbury Boys for example. It is also a high achieving school, albeit not as high as LOS. Gunnersbury is also over subscribed, but full of very local boys - unlike LOS that has boys from far and wide.

Lots of the boys at LOS will have sought after local catholic boy's schools that they could attend if they didn't get in to LOS too - but LOS is a cut above.

A colleague of mine went to a PTA quiz night there. He joined in at a random table as he was alone. The table comprised of a politician, a surgeon, a judge and two financiers.

Whatever is going on, TLO isn't a standard state funded school. I think they receive a lot of funding from their alumni. The alumni also provide links to prestigious work experience opportunities, support with university application, and come in a do talks etc. This provides opportunities that are similar to private schools and dissimilar to other state funded schools.

Lived practically next door! While the school has a number of church places, others are allocated on proximity.

@bloatedbobby thankyou, I stand corrected on the feeder schools! Was writing from memory. As I said, LOS not my cup of tea but I know many people absolutely delighted with it. And to be fair, some that aren’t.