To be shocked that over half a million people under the age of 35 are out of work due to long-term sickness

[puncheur]

I had no idea. These numbers are extraordinary. 560k people between the ages of 16 and 34 economically inactive due to long term illness.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/500000-under-35s-out-of-work-long-term-illness-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I agree.

On the one hand people moan about "lazy" disabled people claiming benefits. On the other hand they moan about WFH. Many people would be in work if they could do most/all of it from home.

Employers are not charities, but they should be concerned about their social impact and the diversity of their employees, as it is well known that diverse workplaces perform better. Treating their employees well and permitting flexible working where possible would allow far more people to be economically active.

Yet my DH has Cervical Myelopathy.

Walking is like walking on sticks for him rather than his feet as he can't feel them. Has spasticity in upper body and bilateral conlus (muscle tightening and large spasms in both legs). Was given emergency surgery to prevent further damage and paralysis from neck down and told that the symptoms he has will not go due to compression of spinal cord and damage already done BUT he was denied PIP and motability because he can walk with crutches and plan a journey without help.

Sorry I meant to quote a poster who said about people getting PIP for bad backs etc that all pop to weatherspoons

''@Caterpillarsleftfoot I bet a lot of this is "mental health"''

And?

Are you suggesting that mental health issues are not real?

People have nervous breakdowns, long term health conditions like Bipolar Disorder and so on. That's a fact of life and has always been.

Poor mental health is as real and damaging to an individual as having a broken leg and any other physical ailment.

I have had disposes of depression since childhood and I am autistic.

I needed to take two months off work this year after a suicide attempt. I was not having a holiday during that time I can assure you...Instead I was being helped every day by the mental health crisis team and my GP and fighting to regain the will to stay alive.

It took time to find the right medication & recover. I could barely eat and sleep for a month and I am still exhausted from this episode.

It is really pathetic that there is still so much ignorance and judgement when it comes to mental health.

Also as someone has said above many workplaces have a lot to answer for when it comes to their employees' poor mental health: bad management, inflexibility, bullying, poor pay and conditions, chronically short-staffed and unrealistic targets. That's hardly going to lead to a happy workforce.

There are a lot of people with severe enduring mental health difficulties that should have support.

Three are also increasing numbers of people with anxiety snd depression where having a job and a purpose would massively improve their situation.

It's also sadly a get out for people that don't fancy working as it's hard to disprove.

I also think it has becomd unfortunately fashionable. This does not help people with genuine issues. All the work place initiatives, social media etc.

Very very few people absolutely cannot work but many claim they can't.

The bad back, bit depressed, I'm my wife's carer because she's got fatigue types are why there isn't though money fir the genuinely disabled (who often actually are the ones that want to work but there aren't the finances to support them.)

I know several adults either learning disabilities that want jobs but would need adaptations/ support so it's hard for them to get a role.

"The bad back, bit depressed, I'm my wife's carer because she's got fatigue types are why there isn't though money fir the genuinely disabled (who often actually are the ones that want to work but there aren't the finances to support them.)"

Except it isn't the case. They've openly said they want to reduce the benefits bill for disabled people hence pip. And in doing so, wasted a lot more than saved.

You can't get benefits because you're a bit depressed or have a bad back. I've got nerve damage to my ears and the muscles in my eyes haven't formed properly so don't work the way they should. I still had to prove that after 8 years of being on DLA (and later on ESA for 11 years) I hadn't been cured. I was told by my pip "assessor" I should have grown out of those things. There's no cure for either

Not going to say much as I'll get flamed but the whole PIP system needs reforming and proper face to face re-assessments done regularly rather than people just writing no change on the form and it not being checked out. I had a client came to see me for a PIP renewal form a few weeks ago - had been on mobility for years on end, walked 20 minute walk from his home and easily negotiated a flight of ten steps up to out office with no problem at all, faster than I could do it. Skipped off across the road faster than I could. it makes me cross and I see it time and time again.

@Babyroobs

''Not going to say much as I'll get flamed but the whole PIP system needs reforming and proper face to face re-assessments done regularly rather than people just writing no change on the form and it not being checked out.''

Except that is not how it works.

Most people have an assessment before they are awarded PIP. The award is usually between 1 and 3 years.

Then when you come to the end of your initial award you need to complete the full form again and go through all the questions.

It is not possible to simply write 'no change''...

Then you get another face to face assessment.

I doubt very much that you see people skipping down the street ''time and time again' as you obviously have no knowledge whatsoever of how PIP works.

Review forms are a lot shorter than the initial PIP form and many people just write no change and some don't get assessed. People are currently waiting over a year for review forms to even be looked at.
Then you have the many people who should get an award and don't and have to fight for it. The whole system is a mess.

Nope.

The form is the same one that had to be completed for the initial PIP claim.

It is like making a new claim from scratch and you can't just write 'no change'.

The form is sent 6 months before the initial claim is due to end to cut down on delays.

But some things do not change. No one grows back limbs or is cured from LD.
A chap I know on PIP does not have re-assessments as he is on the highest rate for both components, and he will never get better.
Utterly pointless dragging people like him in for re-assessments.

*There are a lot of people with severe enduring mental health difficulties that should have support.

Three are also increasing numbers of people with anxiety snd depression where having a job and a purpose would massively improve their situation*

Anxiety and depression can be severe and enduring. We hear about them more as they are the more common MH conditions to have.
To say that people with them could just work and it solve their problems is just untrue, and pretty offensive

God, is someone writing else about this here, cervical myelopathy, thank you x

Thank you.

This. I'm tired of hearing it implied that all people with mental health issues need is a spot of good honest toil and they'd be right as rain. For so many it's just not that simple.

We need to make a decision one way or the other as to whether we consider mental illness to be as significant as a physical problem or not. If someone is depressed or anxious to such a degree that they would not suit a job, we should decide as a country whether we should support them for the long term to have a good quality of life (even if they never work again) or do we just say nope, sorry you’re on your own. The current system basically does the latter while pretending to offer the former and it’s disingenuous. Personally I think everyone should have a base income working or not that they can live a basic happy life.

My awards have been given on the basis of life long mental health issues going back to childhood.
I do have the records to support that though. I kept struggling for years working various jobs that I'd inevitably lose or resign from. I'm considered well educated with an ability to adapt and communication skills. It's only in the last 10 years I realised I was masking and what that meant.
I decided to go for the Universal Credit support group and was accepted first time. It took me two further years to apply for PIP as I thought nobody gets this, I can't face the paperwork or the interview. I got accepted first time. 2 points off maximum award but that's fine. I'm nearly 50, I have tried SO hard to work and better myself.

I'm on a Facebook group about PIP and disabled benefits, there are a lot of complaints from people suffering depression and anxiety, but it's been months or maybe a year and they have been turned down.

So yes, I think MH does need to be seen as a physical disability - and it is - for instance, panic attacks, lack of sleep, the constant of always feeling frightened. It is a minefield. My assessors had a 7 inch stack of papers, so I was okay in that respect. The physical injuries and the harm done to myself often self medicating are not okay. Should I have been listened to at 12? Absolutely. Should I have written myself off at 18? Absolutely not.
I do hope now that I can live the rest of my life without challenge. My only challenge is that I'm now depressed because I feel useless.
I have a wonderful GP. I'll get there.

Also a lot of bloody lazy sods out there
i know of a lot

You resurrected a thread from last year to spout Torygraph nonsense about long-term sick people. Well done you.

I'm glad you got accepted for a PIP. You have to be brave these days to even attempt to apply for help.

I agree with you that depression is physically troublesome. I have an auto immune disease now, but it has nowhere near crippled me as much as my breakdown. I sometimes have issues getting around now, but it's nothing compared to the difficulty I had with mental health problems. I couldn't be trusted to drive a car back then, in case I decided to drive it into a lorry or switch all my lights off and drive down a country lane and see what happened (fortunately I survived). I couldn't get out of bed. I once didn't move for about four days hoping I'd eventually drop dead from lack of food or water. There was no way I could leave the house. Going to the kitchen would exhaust me so much I would need the entire day to recover from it. I couldn't answer the phone. Going to essential appointments was impossible. I couldn't even answer the door when the GP and the crisis team came round for me.

If it hadn't been for a friend taking me in and looking after me, I honestly believe I'd be dead right now.

The idea that I was fit for work is a fucking joke.

Oh jesus, I've been had!! What an idiot.

Three are also increasing numbers of people with anxiety snd depression where having a job and a purpose would massively improve their situation

My job as a teacher caused mine to seriously deteriorate. Jobs can easily add stress to anxiety and depression.

14 years of Tory austerity and a once in a century pandemic. It's not really that surprising. The shocking thing is its the victims who are being blamed and shamed.

Part of the problem is that the criteria used to determine whether someone's disabled or not (for conditions like ADHD but also for things like PIP) is whether someone's struggling in multiple areas of their life. As more and more people struggle more and more as the country's economic situation deteriorates, more and more people come to legitimately meet these criteria.

I also think there is a lot more awareness of the existence of PIP and a significant amount of free, good quality online and social media advice about how to claim it successfully; i.e. how to answer the questions so as to conform to the actual PIP regulations.

I had never heard of PIP until about ten years ago. Now I feel like a bloody expert, through necessity.

And I’m happy to pass that knowledge on and help others, via MN or elsewhere.

However, I will continue to maintain that PIP is not easy to get and keep. It’s a stressful and traumatising system in and of itself for some of our most unwell patients. So I think there is an uptick in actual illnesses as well as greater awareness of the benefit.

I’d certainly like to see better data available on claimants, claims and all the related stats.