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To be shocked that over half a million people under the age of 35 are out of work due to long-term sickness

406 replies

puncheur · 24/12/2023 16:29

I had no idea. These numbers are extraordinary. 560k people between the ages of 16 and 34 economically inactive due to long term illness.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/500000-under-35s-out-of-work-long-term-illness-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

More than 500,000 under-35s in UK out of work due to long-term illness

Experts link 44% increase in four years to a growing mental health crisis and underinvestment in health services

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/500000-under-35s-out-of-work-long-term-illness-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
RaspberriesUpside · 26/12/2023 19:46

I look at my kids at university. Who knows what the future holds for them. I would be devastated if they were struck by illness that made them unable to work. I would also be devastated if they didn’t want to work and fabricated illness to get out of it.

Nobody wants this life for young people do they? There is nothing to resent or envy here.

RaspberriesUpside · 26/12/2023 19:55

tescocreditcard · 24/12/2023 19:20

I also strongly suspect that mental health issues are linked to both parents being out at work all day.

However, I have noticed a very small but significant reversal in this, with more women staying at home with their children - probably because they have to work till they're 67 anyway so 5ish years out of the workplace won't make much difference to career prospects. Hopefully this will help to improve the mental health of our future generations.

with more women staying at home with their children….Hopefully this will help to improve the mental health of our future generations.

Interesting that it’s mums you are hoping to get out of the workforce rather than dads with their Very Important Jobs. Great way to reverse progress for women 👏

Crikeyalmighty · 26/12/2023 19:56

To be frank the country needs a 'reset' - we have disincentivised lots of younger people from much needed but not particularly well paid jobs these days that require vast amounts of study . to me it's ludicrous when a digital marketer or middle ranking estate agent or recruitment consultant with moderate 'sales' or HR manager in a small company is earning as much as a doctor in the NHS with 8 years very high level training behind them or say a headmaster or deputy .

All my sons friends of around 25 to 28 with jobs and families in the south east despair of being able to own a modest flat/home anywhere they would actually want to invest their money in. We are infantilising many by forcing them into houshares well into their 30s in many cases unless they manage to hook up with a real high earner or someone who has inherited and the most they can expect us maybe buying 25% into a 2 bed flat - that's if they can get one without the girl needing to get pregnant

So many of them are getting mental health issues through ending up with 3 flat moves in a year regularly!! Dodgy landlords, weird house mates , landlords selling - the list is endless

The whole situation is unsustainable in the country in all but the very cheapest areas- and those areas are often where the better paid jobs don't exist

DonnaBanana · 26/12/2023 20:14

Crispedia · 26/12/2023 19:12

I don’t know a single person in the last 20 years who has had to leave such a role due to ill health.

I have two good online friends with severe ME, like me, one was a doctor of chemistry and one a lawyer. Educated, well paid people under 35 can be unlucky and get a disabling illness that prevents them working. We are sick too so can’t simply work from home. I can type a few paragraphs daily, no more as texting, typing, face time and phone calls all increase my chronic head pain and all other symptoms to unbearable levels v quickly.

I think we should feel quite privileged you used one of your paragraphs on us today then

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 26/12/2023 20:31

DonnaBanana · 26/12/2023 20:14

I think we should feel quite privileged you used one of your paragraphs on us today then

Nice silencing tactic there. IDS is wishing that he'd thought of that.

"If you're well enough to try to advocate for your rights, you're well enough to work" reads like a perfect Tory soundbite.

Crispedia · 26/12/2023 20:40

DonnaBanana · 26/12/2023 20:14

I think we should feel quite privileged you used one of your paragraphs on us today then

If this is a dig, I am embarrassed for you.

Crikeyalmighty · 26/12/2023 20:43

One thing I didn't say and someone else mentioned this too is just because someone 'might' be able to physically work doesn't necessarily make them mega employable - not only are there people with all kinds of chronic physical conditions that make working consistently difficult but there are plenty of people who have abused drugs and alcohol to such an extent that they are pretty much unemployable- and it isn't always that easy these days to get help and treatment for those in this position who really want to turn things around too.

This is a different thing altogether from those disabled people who have no such issues and very much want to work and can be great employees in the right roles with employers who are able to make it work for them

RethinkingLife · 26/12/2023 20:46

We are infantilising many by forcing them into houshares well into their 30s…

So many of them are getting mental health issues through ending up with 3 flat moves in a year regularly!! Dodgy landlords, weird house mates , landlords selling - the list is endless

One of the most disturbing aspects of this is the impact of housing instability and evictions on neonatal health and life chances. Paraphrasing Matthew Desmond, "Eviction is to Black women what mass incarceration is to Black men. Both cause and are a consequence of poverty".

In the US, Shawnita Sealy-Jefferson has done some truly disturbing research on housing, stressful neighbourhood conditions, adverse birth outcomes, and maternal mortality.

Sealy-Jefferson S. Injustices in Black Maternal Health: A Call for Different Research Questions, Orientations, and Methodologies. Front Public Health. 2022 Apr 18;10:860850. doi: 10.3389/fpubh.2022.860850. PMID: 35509507; PMCID: PMC9058078. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35509507/

Sealy-Jefferson S, Butler B, Price-Spratlen T, Dailey RK, Misra DP. Neighborhood-Level Mass Incarceration and Future Preterm Birth Risk among African American Women. J Urban Health. 2020 Apr;97(2):271-278. doi: 10.1007/s11524-020-00426-w. PMID: 32095977; PMCID: PMC7101288.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32095977/

Sealy-Jefferson S, Butler B, Chettri S, Elmi H, Stevens A, Bosah C, Dailey R, Misra DP. Neighborhood Evictions, Marital/Cohabiting Status, and Preterm Birth among African American Women. Ethn Dis. 2021 Apr 15;31(2):197-204. doi: 10.18865/ed.31.2.197. PMID: 33883860; PMCID: PMC8054869.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33883860/

Princeton Uni has an Eviction Lab. I don't know if they've published research about housing instability and mental health.

https://evictionlab.org/about/#work

Injustices in Black Maternal Health: A Call for Different Research Questions, Orientations, and Methodologies - PubMed

For decades, Black mothers have been most likely to suffer the worst outcomes of pregnancy, including death. Even though traditional individual level risk factors do not explain racial inequities in maternal morbidity, most studies identify Black race...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35509507

DragonMama3 · 26/12/2023 20:52

@Willyoujustbequiet you can't get dla and pip. Esa and Pip perhaps.

OfcourseitsaNC · 26/12/2023 21:02

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 26/12/2023 19:40

It doesn't occur to you that this isn't a matter of attitude but of autism affecting different people differently?

Of course it does.

It's definitely an attitude and a choice for my relative to opt out of working due to their autism.

Mumof2NDers · 26/12/2023 21:11

RaspberriesUpside · 26/12/2023 19:46

I look at my kids at university. Who knows what the future holds for them. I would be devastated if they were struck by illness that made them unable to work. I would also be devastated if they didn’t want to work and fabricated illness to get out of it.

Nobody wants this life for young people do they? There is nothing to resent or envy here.

We certainly don’t want this life for them. DS1 is 23, diagnosed with 3 neurological conditions(Tourette’s syndrome, ADHD and Visual Snow Syndrome) He has also been diagnosed with long Covid. He couldn’t declare any of the above when he applied for a job because he knew he wouldn’t get it. He got a job picking online orders for a supermarket. When he started they put him on shelf stacking. He quite enjoyed the job but it took its toll on him due to his long Covid. He couldn’t ask for reasonable adjustments because he hadn’t told them he had it so he had to give it up.
He feels useless and like a burden to us. Which he absolutely isn’t

AppleChristsBirthdayMacchiato · 26/12/2023 21:11

FestiveFruitloop · 26/12/2023 17:38

You don't need to repeat. I am not stupid. I know exactly what state the country is in.

You, however, still seem to be dodging the question of how less fortunate pensioners (who have spent their ENTIRE LIVES funding the system, incidentally) are supposed to find the wherewithal to finance your master plan. Or, indeed, whether it is even their moral responsibility.

You're not wrong, but rate of pension fraud (ie pensioners committing benefit fraud by lying about their personal circumstances, not people ripping off pensioners) is massively, massively higher than the rate of disability benefit fraud.

Whenever there's a thread about disability benefits on MN it always turns into "well some people fake disability to get benefits" but people are ignorant of or choose to ignore the facts.

Look at official government statistics on benefit fraud for any given year, the statistic for how many claims for disability benefits are proven to be fraudulent is between 0.2% and 0.5%.

Around 90% of all cases of suspected disability fraud that are reported to the government are proven to be groundless (ie the person who was reported actually was disabled and had not lied or committed any fraud).

The amount of money the government spends investigating malicious false claims of disability benefit fraud is something like three times more than the government makes penalising the 0.2% who actually do commit disability benefit fraud.

And malicious fraud reports don't just cost the government millions, they can also severely harm disabled people, whose benefits are sometimes stopped during the course of the investigation, leaving them without any income. (If they're found not guilty, which 90% are, they receive backdated benefits for the time period their benefits were stopped, but that doesn't exactly help if you've already been evicted for not paying your rent, or had to go without food and medicine.)

On the flipside if you look at official government statistics on benefit fraud for any given year, between 2%-3% of claims for state pension are found to have contained fraudulent information.

Factually, elderly people are massively more likely to lie on their pension application in order to commit fraud, than disability benefit claimants are.

Yet the right wing tabloids and TV shows constantly push this (completely inaccurate) perception that people are just faking disability for ££ left right and centre. When was the last time you saw an article or TV story about an elderly person stealing money by lying on their pension application? Never - because elderly people have the highest voting turnout, so no political party dares to target them. Disabled people are considered a good target for being made a scapegoat so the Tories can pretend our country's financial problems are due to horrible lazy scamming disabled people on benefits, when that simply is not supported by the facts.

Funny how there's never a thread about pensioners committing benefit fraud, huh.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 26/12/2023 21:31

OfcourseitsaNC · 26/12/2023 21:02

Of course it does.

It's definitely an attitude and a choice for my relative to opt out of working due to their autism.

I would suggest that your relative's healthcare providers and the PIP assessors know better than you do on that front. A condition like autism, that affects how someone copes with social situations and environments with high levels of noise, smell, light, etc, may well cause your relative to stay at home on the worst days. You will see him on his best days, which are not representative of all his days.

Crikeyalmighty · 26/12/2023 22:01

@RethinkingLife thanks for that- I feel really strongly that the ludicrous housing situation in the UK is causing knock on effects in so many other areas of life and in many cases is actively disincentivising working - it's more marked in certain areas than others. Here's a couple of examples

  1. Person I know doesn't work and has 2 under8s - she has been offered a role but it would put her just above the level of getting her rent paid (private rent) and very little UC . - she is too frightened to take it because if it doesn't work out she is worried about then having a gap getting her UC again and her landlord giving her notice because she's slightly behind for a short while or not renewing her tenancy when it becomes due - at the moment he doesn't know she isn't working as she was when she got the tenancy. This wouldn't be an issue in HA or council . She would have someone logical to let know the situation

2 my son in London has his girlfriend moving in to his private rented flat - he's looking to buy into a shared ownership next year but on paper they are just going to be on the borders income wise as whilst you can earn up to £90k in total to qualify- to fit the rent and mortgage plus service charge affordability criteria you are looking at around £68,000 to £72,000 in greater London . This is making it a really narrow window of people who it can work for. Useless for most people on their own or average earning single parents etc - so others say move out- well then you hit much higher commuting costs and they both have 'in person' type jobs- so it actually makes more sense for them to live in Greater London.

TempestTost · 26/12/2023 23:01

I'm not sure that statistics on fraudulent claims really tells us much about whether people are applying a different kind of standard about what constitutes a condition that is incompatible with working. It really only tells us when people are actually going so far as to fake a claim in some way.

I don't think that's what's really going on in most of these situations.

Julen7 · 26/12/2023 23:03

AppleChristsBirthdayMacchiato · 26/12/2023 21:11

You're not wrong, but rate of pension fraud (ie pensioners committing benefit fraud by lying about their personal circumstances, not people ripping off pensioners) is massively, massively higher than the rate of disability benefit fraud.

Whenever there's a thread about disability benefits on MN it always turns into "well some people fake disability to get benefits" but people are ignorant of or choose to ignore the facts.

Look at official government statistics on benefit fraud for any given year, the statistic for how many claims for disability benefits are proven to be fraudulent is between 0.2% and 0.5%.

Around 90% of all cases of suspected disability fraud that are reported to the government are proven to be groundless (ie the person who was reported actually was disabled and had not lied or committed any fraud).

The amount of money the government spends investigating malicious false claims of disability benefit fraud is something like three times more than the government makes penalising the 0.2% who actually do commit disability benefit fraud.

And malicious fraud reports don't just cost the government millions, they can also severely harm disabled people, whose benefits are sometimes stopped during the course of the investigation, leaving them without any income. (If they're found not guilty, which 90% are, they receive backdated benefits for the time period their benefits were stopped, but that doesn't exactly help if you've already been evicted for not paying your rent, or had to go without food and medicine.)

On the flipside if you look at official government statistics on benefit fraud for any given year, between 2%-3% of claims for state pension are found to have contained fraudulent information.

Factually, elderly people are massively more likely to lie on their pension application in order to commit fraud, than disability benefit claimants are.

Yet the right wing tabloids and TV shows constantly push this (completely inaccurate) perception that people are just faking disability for ££ left right and centre. When was the last time you saw an article or TV story about an elderly person stealing money by lying on their pension application? Never - because elderly people have the highest voting turnout, so no political party dares to target them. Disabled people are considered a good target for being made a scapegoat so the Tories can pretend our country's financial problems are due to horrible lazy scamming disabled people on benefits, when that simply is not supported by the facts.

Funny how there's never a thread about pensioners committing benefit fraud, huh.

Don’t understand the point about pension fraud. A pension is awarded based on a person’s age and NI contributions, nothing to do with personal circumstances. I imagine it would be quite hard to claim a state pension fraudulently.

OfcourseitsaNC · 26/12/2023 23:55

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 26/12/2023 21:31

I would suggest that your relative's healthcare providers and the PIP assessors know better than you do on that front. A condition like autism, that affects how someone copes with social situations and environments with high levels of noise, smell, light, etc, may well cause your relative to stay at home on the worst days. You will see him on his best days, which are not representative of all his days.

I would suggest you

A) read my first post about my relative
B) don't assume I know less than the PIP assessors about autism

I have cared for my relative on their best and worst days since birth, and everything in-between. Their worst days were over exaggerated and increased in frequency for the sake of the assessors. My relative said so themselves.

Neuronamechange · 27/12/2023 00:59

I’m almost 10 years out of that age range now but I’ve been unable to work since I was in my early 20’s. In addition to the pain of a life long condition, I’m isolated socially and severely restricted both physically and financially.

My once bright future became immediately dim with my diagnosis. Financially we’d be better off if DH left work to care for me but I’m not sure our marriage would survive the utter boredom of us both doing nothing.

XenoBitch · 27/12/2023 01:14

I was in this group a few years back. I could not claim benefits as my DP earned too much. So I was also in the precarious position of not having a single penny to my name. He was not abusive, but had he had been..... Confused

I am still unable to work now (but live alone. I have met someone but can't even entertain the thought of living with him because of the way benefits work).
There is no real help out there to get sick/disabled back into work. Just sanctions, and threats of poverty.
There is some bullshit thing about sick/disabled being made to get WFH jobs. Where are these jobs? There is huge competition for such roles, and many work places are insisting on a return to the office anyway. Also, someone who has only even worked in blue collar jobs is gong to struggle to get a WFH job, along with people who have not worked for a long time. WFH roles are not entry level ones.

TigerRag · 27/12/2023 07:13

OfcourseitsaNC · 26/12/2023 23:55

I would suggest you

A) read my first post about my relative
B) don't assume I know less than the PIP assessors about autism

I have cared for my relative on their best and worst days since birth, and everything in-between. Their worst days were over exaggerated and increased in frequency for the sake of the assessors. My relative said so themselves.

I suggest you look up masking

cornflower21 · 27/12/2023 07:27

ToBeOrNotToBee · 24/12/2023 16:32

If the NHS wasn't such a state and people could get the help they needed, when they needed to stop things becoming chronic, this wouldn't be such a big thing.

Yes this is very true.
The waiting list for appointments is absolutely ridiculous.

OfcourseitsaNC · 27/12/2023 07:51

TigerRag · 27/12/2023 07:13

I suggest you look up masking

I suggest you don't assume I know nothing about masking.

Why is it so difficult for a few of you to understand that my relative chose to use her ASC (which she openly admitted she researched how to pass the ADOS), then her brain and her connections to work out how to opt out of a working life and get paid for it?

redundantMother · 27/12/2023 10:15

Thank you for this thread - not sure of your intention, but it’s highlighted for me the unseen suffering of so many with conditions I had no knowledge of. Perhaps time to reflect on a government that had decimated public health and education with predictable consequences.

Locutus2000 · 27/12/2023 10:50

OfcourseitsaNC · 27/12/2023 07:51

I suggest you don't assume I know nothing about masking.

Why is it so difficult for a few of you to understand that my relative chose to use her ASC (which she openly admitted she researched how to pass the ADOS), then her brain and her connections to work out how to opt out of a working life and get paid for it?

You seem obsessed with 'passing' the ADOS, whereas it is just the first step towards an actual diagnosis.

Life on benefits is shite in general, why are you so jealous?

Gettingcolder · 27/12/2023 11:25

@Charlie2121 I was a six figure earner in the city before poor health forced me to go off sick. I wont be included in any state figures as once the company's insurance stopped paying, I live off money I had earned prior to my sickness to ensure that I can now live comfortably whilst working very part-time to keep my brain active. I know plenty of people that were in the high-earnings bracket that went off on long-term sickness, but most are in a fortunate position to not need state assistance so are discounted.

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