To be shocked that over half a million people under the age of 35 are out of work due to long-term sickness

[puncheur]

I had no idea. These numbers are extraordinary. 560k people between the ages of 16 and 34 economically inactive due to long term illness.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/500000-under-35s-out-of-work-long-term-illness-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

In response to those frothing about 'piss-takers', yes of course they exist. But a civilised society does not punish the genuinely needy just because some people choose to game the system.

Some posts on this thread really do hold a mirror up to how nasty some people are becoming if they perceive someone's getting 'something for nothing.' Never mind that most people with physical and mental limitations would give their eye teeth to be healthy enough, not only to work, but to be able to somehow turn themselves into the most appealing candidate among pools of often hundreds, which is the real issue for many. Whether or not someone 'can' work is largely academic if no one will hire them due to their limitations.

You don't need to repeat. I am not stupid. I know exactly what state the country is in.

You, however, still seem to be dodging the question of how less fortunate pensioners (who have spent their ENTIRE LIVES funding the system, incidentally) are supposed to find the wherewithal to finance your master plan. Or, indeed, whether it is even their moral responsibility.

Many pensioners do pay tax after retirement. 🙄. Depends on their income.

@FestiveFruitloop

Its precisely your kind of wishful "pie in the sky" thinking that will lead to brutal spending cuts when the situation deteriorates further.

Where can I get one of these cards?

This and decreasing net contributors by taxing them out of productivity. Going to be a harsh wake up call for some - no matter who gets in.

God, so sorry - that sounds awful :(

The tax-free personal allowance exists, in part, because we are already topping up the income profit of the employers of the lowest earners by topping up wages subsidising employers instead of making them pay a fair wage with in-work benefits. Taking tax from people who receive a top-up in-work benefit is a pointless additional administrative burden that increases poverty.

The people who really need to learn not to expect something for nothing are the aristocracy who expect effort-free payments from renting out the land that their ancestors stole from ours and the employers who underpay their staff. Not the poorest in our society.

I don't know where you got the idea I was pie in the sky for asking a simple question which you are opting not to answer. Your prerogative, of course, but I suspect the reason is that you don't actually have an answer.

@FestiveFruitloop

Let me explain the facts of life to you because you seem to not understand the problem.

There is no pot of money waiting for pensioners because "they paid in all of their lives".

That is NOT how the UK tax structure works.

Current working age taxpayers are funding current pensioners. Thats what existed in the 70s 80s 90s as well, and its also completely irrelevant what the reality was in the 70s 80s 90s 00s.

What matters in such a "pay as you go" system is what is happening today.

and today,

The number of working taxpayers "paying in" is not enough to fund the number of current pensioners. That ratio used to be 6:1 in the 50s and it is now 3:1, and is forecast to drop to 2:1 in the 2040s.

And that is due to demographics, and a great many people not paying sufficient tax while utilising public services.

There is no fixing this without significant economic pain for the old and unproductive. Thats the future the UK faces.

There is no free lunch in this world anymore.

And yet it doesn't work as an opt-out of working for life card for me.

It's almost like some autistic people can work whilst others can't. And the ones who can't work can't, whether diagnosed or not.

The people who really need to learn not to expect something for nothing are the aristocracy who expect effort-free payments from renting out the land that their ancestors stole from ours and the employers who underpay their staff. Not the poorest in our society.

Amen.

This.

Currently-drawn pensions have always been paid for by currently-working workers. The "paid in all my life" argument has never reflected reality.

So did i, self medicating with drink and drugs was extremely common, as was burn out, people just dropped out, no one ever figured what happened to them.

People in these sorts of jobs will have access to PHI, able to deal with problems quickly (no waiting lists) they also wont be faced with the worry of bills and housing, its really not a fair comparison

I only personally know of two people who are young and have struggled with work, both experienced very high levels of trauma as youngsters, this seems to have followed them through their teens and 20s, no/limited long term treatments or help, child MH services are near non existent and this has consequence as we now see.

Quite, people inheriting many multiples of what most people can hope to earn in a lifetime. Then looking down on those people and judging them for their struggles.

Surely one of the factors is the food. The junk food that everybody eats and normalises. We are all fine, fish fingers and chicken nuggets are fine. Until we are not.

😂😂😂

You're funny, I'll give you that. (And, I suspect, have little understanding of the reality of many elderly people's lives. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I wasn't talking about any 'magic money pot'. I was objecting to the morals of expecting the elderly, who have a fixed income, to be the ones who should expect to be squeezed dry while the super-rich and the crooked remain unaffected, clueless and merrily voting Tory time after time.

@BouncingJAS I'd also be fascinated to hear your definition of 'the unproductive'. pins back ears

I don’t know a single person in the last 20 years who has had to leave such a role due to ill health.

I have two good online friends with severe ME, like me, one was a doctor of chemistry and one a lawyer. Educated, well paid people under 35 can be unlucky and get a disabling illness that prevents them working. We are sick too so can’t simply work from home. I can type a few paragraphs daily, no more as texting, typing, face time and phone calls all increase my chronic head pain and all other symptoms to unbearable levels v quickly.

At the GP, then the ADOS. Followed up by your PIP assessment.

Just do your research on the internet, like my relative did, and you've earned your card.

Many of them have "leaded arse syndrome".

Some of those will have profound learning disabilities that mean that they cannot work, I know several (personally and through work) they have the capacity of young children or toddlers, of course they cannot work but they will be included in that statistic

I'm glad it doesn't work as an opt out of working for life card for you. 👏

I wish my relative had the same attitude.

And that is due to demographics, and a great many people not paying sufficient tax while utilising public services

There is no fixing this without significant economic pain for the old and unproductive. Thats the future the UK faces

People in the UK aren't paying enough Tax because the Tories held down wages, quite simply, they can no longer afford to pay tax and still live.

Err why should the old and i assume you mean the "poor" have more pain? why shouldn't the wealthy have to pay more?

& by wealthy, i don't mean higher rate tax payers (who due to Tories holding back tax TH's are no longer wealthy) but the super rich, why can't they pay more?

Or is it they will leave the UK (and go where exactly?)

It doesn't occur to you that this isn't a matter of attitude but of autism affecting different people differently?