Not to want to have words that I find offensive in thread titles?

[seeker]

Well,am I?

I object very strongly to people using the word "cunt" as a perjorative term - I think it's offensive and degrading to women. I challenge people who use it in RL. Do I have a point? Or not?

Seeker et al, you still haven't explained why you think it is misogynist?

seeker to attempt to answer your questions on misogyny and using the word cunt.

History first
Cunt from German (or so they think) just meaning female genitalia.
Used a fair bit in Chaucer
Fell out of fashion, revival in 1930s responsible for a good deal of controversy surrounding Lady Chatterly's lover.
Used as a descriptive word, a exclamation of shock or anger or an insult.

They has been feminist moves to reclaim the 'cunt' as a word that is acceptable to use in all these senses. It has been suggested that to object to the word cunt above say, dick or prick is in itself sexist because you afford the female genitals some special respected status.

You can call a man's penis his dick in an affectionate or sexual way just as you can call him a dick for being stupid. You can call your genitals a cunt or you can jokingly call your mate a cunt for being unfair or you can call someone a cunt for being an vile person.
Arguably cunt is seen as far worse than dick, or prick or cock because it is feminine and so doubly insulting. However that depends on your view of the feminine. Personally, I would rather be called a cunt than a prick but that's just me.

I don't see how you could censor the word cunt without censoring other swearing from thread titles. A twat has much the same meaning, a prick/dick/cock, ditto.

A note for those who think we is dumb that swear...

It is a great skill to swear well, this is evident if you listen to those youngsters who have just learnt to swear, they don't do it well.

Swear words are also wonderfully versitile, fuck for example can be a adjective, noun or verb or even inserted into the middle of words.
That's a fucking mess, he was a fuck, we had a fuck, abso-fucking-lutely.
These words have an important role history in our language and a special part in our culture. Do not be naive to think that it is lack of eloquence on the part of all those who use them.

There is always someone who tries to intellectualise debates

It's just a word. (They are all just words.) Banning words is misguided in my opinion; it just gives heart to those who aim to imbue them with hateful meaning.

The way to attack misogynists or racists is to debate with them and expose them for the bears of very little brain that they almost always are.

Exa-fucking-ctly Slur. Well said, you clever twat.

Telly boring tonight so thankyu for a fun evening reading this thread!!

goodnight

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY SLUR!!!
Couldn't have said it better myself, you brightspark you!

IMO using it in a thread title is purely for shock value, and attention seeking, and is not big or clever.

I think we have to argue from where we are, not where we want to be or think we ought to be. And where we are is that the worst and most offensive thing someone can call someone else is a word which means the female genitalia. If calling someone a cunt was the same as calling them a"prick" then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it isn't.

I think this is symbolic of a society where maleness is the norm, and where there is an underlying current of "women-hate".

I don't want to ban the word - but I do want women to think carefully before they use it. In the same way that I think young women who think they are being feminist and liberated by drinking 20 bottles of lager and throwing up should think carefully about whether buying in to a "laddish" sub-culture is actually that liberating.

Oh, and what is the problem with intellectualizing debates?

Because intellictualising a debate implies that people try to understand the scope of other views - e.g., that some people find the word 'cunt' just that, and don't read anything more into it, other than say, ignorance, which isn't enough to offend them.

It was a joke seeker

Heh?? I agree with everything seeker has said.

hmm this is interesting I am not sure what to think although I do use the word cunt quite a lot

usually to reassure people HMMMM e.g. if I was talking to a Nice Mummy at the school gate who told me something appalling about her ex-husband I would leave a suitable pause and say "What a complete cunt" in my poshest Nice Lady voice and that usually is appreciated for comedy value and also sisterly support.

And I refer to my OWN cunt occasionally again largely for comedy purposes (N.B. do not try this with Medics, this is true of any comedy of course) also when being scathing of hippy midwives asking me what part of childbirth I am afraid of

maybe I am over-analysing...

anyway it doesn't remotely offend me, I don't see why it would, there doesn't seem to be an underlying reason for it.

Sorry, tinylady - missed that

expat - I now don't know whether you're on my side or not.....my intellect must be slipping......!

I always wonder, when people trot out the argument about not wanting their DC to read words like fuck, cunt and bumsex over their shoulders, whether they are happy for the same DC to read thread titles like 'My husband has beaten me up' or 'I hate my children and wish I had never had them.'
This is, after all, a talkboard aimed at adults so some adult themes are going to be discussed on it.

I think my 7 year old would try to sound out the word as he does with all other words he doesn't understand, or recognise.

What I don't want to be having is a discussion with him about what it means, or even to hear him say it!

But seeker, what do you think about words like 'gay', 'queen', 'camp' - all of which have been reclaimed?

I didn't think one went into an intellectual debate to stay on a 'side'.

I agree, policywonk, although I do have gay friends who call each other - or ex's - a bitch or a cunt.

I wouldn't want to have censorship but however much you intellectualise it they are ugly words IMO and not ones that I ever use. I shall just hide the threads in future.

I wonder if this is an age thing? I am a lot older than most people on here so I come from a different politico/feminist standpoint, I think. Somebody said earlier on that women don't use the word. That is, of course, not true now. But when I was a young woman, it was largely true. I think it's fantastic that women are so much freer in word and action than they were.

But I do find it a little sad (sorry, I wish there was an I Know I'm Being Patronizing Emoticon) that women have not decided to use that freedom to say "You know what? I am not going to tolerate a word for my genitals being the worst swear word in the English language."

And as I've said lots of times, I'm anti censorship too. I do though, think that sometimes self-censorship is a good idea "I can, but I choose not to"

Perhaps it is an age thing,I am older than a lot of people on here,I think it is ludicrous to have women's genitals as a term of abuse! My freedom of expression is not to use it! It seems to me to be used for shock tactics-not something that I find necessary.

Seeker - I'm a straight-down-the-line seventies-style feminist in most respects so I understand your confusion/alienation (I get it in spades when women talk about feeling empowered by stripping). However, I do think that you can come at this from one of two angles: either you think that one shouldn't use the word because to do so reinforces misogyny, OR you think that the fact that the word is regarded as being superlatively offensive is a result of misogyny.

In my opinion, people's fear/hatred of the word is a product of a general fear/hatred of women's genitals (not including you in this!). The word causes repulsion because society in general is repulsed by women's bodies. Acceding in the popular notion that it's the worst word in the language is to accede that a woman's genitals are the most powerfully revolting thing in the world. That's my angle anyway.

I'm quite old... How old is too old to use cunt?