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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

653 replies

ImTheGoat · 21/12/2023 11:24

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

We Can't Consent To This

We catalogue the men who claim sex “gone wrong" in the death or injury of a woman or girl. We don't believe that women and girls can consent to their murder, or to terrible injury. There are now 56 UK women and girls killed, and many more injured, in c...

https://wecantconsenttothis.uk

OP posts:
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11
SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:25

Because teenagers, thanks to porn, now think it’s an everyday sex act.

@Jellycats4life IT IS an everyday sex act. The issue you need to take up is that of rapist men. That’s the only issue. No one should be forcing or coercing anyone else into any sex - vanilla or otherwise. Anal sex is not the problem and you need to really think about that as an attitude. Banning anal sex would not stop rape.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 21/12/2023 13:26

I agree with raising awareness. I don't like the thought of young couples thinking it was normal and then things going horribly wrong. A dead daughter or a son in prison.

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:26

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 13:19

I didn't say things should or shouldn't be done, you asked how it could be prevented and I offered a suggestion. People can do what they like but it's my opinion that engaging in anything that could go wrong, for any reason, with someone you don't/barely know is unwise. They won't know what your responses are like, it's unlikely that any kind of "what if" or "what do to when" conversation has taken place which is kind of key when partaking in any kind of BDSM safely.

A pp up there detailed what to do and what happens if things go wonky

Show quote history

but it's my opinion that engaging in anything that could go wrong, for any reason, with someone you don't/barely know is unwise

And this is the only way to prevent death it seems. And even with SkySecret’s example, it wouldn’t take much for a few extra seconds with someone you did know well for it to do horribly wrong.

Essentially what I’ve gathered from the start of this thread since I asked how to prevent death the answer is: no one knows for sure, they just hope they trust their partner enough and no other variable comes into play during a strangulation event to tip it from pleasure to death/injury.

It comes down to trusting men and chance. Good luck with that, those who say they enjoy it.

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 21/12/2023 13:26

Can I just say that kink shaming isn't a bad thing. There are plenty that should be shamed.

And having sex that doesn't include being strangled, having your arse fisted or being degraded by names or being spat on doesn't make any one vanilla.

Ramalangadingdong · 21/12/2023 13:26

I love vanilla sex! As for clutching my pearls I don’t like being given a pearl necklace either.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 21/12/2023 13:27

No one really enjoys it, do they? Try hard pick me types trying to appeal to porn addled men. Ditto anal.

category12 · 21/12/2023 13:29

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 21/12/2023 13:14

I thought it was auto-erotic asphyxiation.

Show quote history

Yes. I'm sure that was the story about it at the time.

Someone on the local BDSM scene died a few years back in one of those rubber whole-body restraint thingies.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 13:29

I think some women do enjoy it, but not all women who do it do, like anal sex it's become an expectation with the increase in violent pornography being so widely available and normalised.

Knitgoodwoman · 21/12/2023 13:29

It does feel like women trying to please men, as others have said. I would strongly advise a friend not to do it, especially if a man wanted to do it. Internalised misogyny.

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:30

@Ramalangadingdong firstly I’m sorry to hear you’ve been assaulted in such a way. That’s awful, and understandable why you wouldn’t want to repeat that.

In answer to your questions, yes, I’ve done it to DP too. He loves being bitten, slapped a bit, I’ve had my hands around his neck. I’ve tied him up, whipped him with his leather belt, dropped hot wax on him.

So this isn’t about him wanting a power dynamic over me specifically, we enjoy experimenting, exploring, trying different dynamics. He also enjoys just doing it nicely and lovingly too, and requests it like that if that’s what he wants (same for me). Most of our sex is reasonably “normal” to be honest.

I prefer being submissive to dominant, I just always have. Maybe because I’m quite independent and strong in my everyday life, it’s a way to switch it up a bit and be someone else in fantasy?

Comedycook · 21/12/2023 13:30

Weren't the old days lovely....where you'd meet a man, he's take you out to dinner and you might go back to his and have sex and he'd be perfectly happy because having a consenting naked woman in his bed and plain old vanilla sex was an absolute triumph for him.

Now you get sent a dick pic online and hope the bloke strangling you won't actually murder you.

Yeah... great.

YuleDragon · 21/12/2023 13:31

TooOldForThisNonsense · 21/12/2023 13:27

No one really enjoys it, do they? Try hard pick me types trying to appeal to porn addled men. Ditto anal.

yes, some of us DO enjoy it, and just because we enjoy something that you don't doesn't make us a 'pick me' ffs.

Keep your dumbass namecalling to yourself.

Verv · 21/12/2023 13:31

Aydahayda · 21/12/2023 13:09

You mean Michael Hutchence of INXS?

he committed suicide by hanging, not really the same thing??

Show quote history

Was rumoured to be auto erotic asphixiation, but given thats a muddy outcome, perhaps David Carradine would be a better example.

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:33

@NotBadConsidering even in my example it wouldn’t have gone “horribly wrong”. I’d have passed out for a few seconds then come back around. And the point was there’s plenty of time to let them know that’s happening.

It would only go horribly wrong if someone was intentionally trying to cause injury or death, which is a very different issue to what people enjoy in the bedroom. That requires a very specific intent.

anothernamitynamenamechange · 21/12/2023 13:33

I don’t think those who are the type that genuinely want to hurt women will hold out for someone who likes a bit of rough just to cover for themselves. If they are going to kill they’re going to kill. Not enjoying rough sex won’t save you.

Yes and then AFTER the fact they can claim that the woman DID enjoy rough sex and did ask for it and she won't be able to offer a counter narrative because she's dead.
Or (and this is something that has happened) a violent man can abuse his partner and when she reports it to the police the case is dropped by CPS because the violence happened during sex and is therefore of limits even though she was clear that she never consented to the violence, did not enjoy violent sex etc etc

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 21/12/2023 13:33

So is it pretending to rape/be raped?

Comedycook · 21/12/2023 13:36

You know what if you're a woman and your bar for men is so low that the best you expect is he will probably stop choking me before I die...then I feel very very sorry for you.

horseyhorsey17 · 21/12/2023 13:37

TiredEvenForAPhoenix · 21/12/2023 13:15

Same! When I was a teenager, there was zero expectation of Hollywood waxes or shaved pubes on either sex, obviously no danger of shared nudes or secret filming during sex, I remember one girl got asked for anal by her boyfriend and we were all horrified - it was absolutely not the norm - and spitting or choking were acts of violent assault, not part of sex. I see all those things described on MN now as 'vanilla' and totally expected parts of sex. If you express any concern, you're told you're frigid, boring in bed and to stop clutching your pearls. Also, everyone denies that porn has anything to do with it - but all these acts have become mainstream since the advent of brutal internet porn, it's not a coincidence.

I am so grateful not to be a teenage girl right now or on the dating scene.

Show quote history

I am single again after a marriage and this actually puts me off dating. I can't be arsed shaving all my pubes off and having a minge that feels like a hive of bees has moved in down there, I don't want to do anal, and any guy that tries a bit of casual choking will be cooling his ardour off in a prison cell.

Men seem to be more horrible now - more pushy and grabby and telling you all their 'kinks' and sending dick pics before they've even found out your name - and it obviously IS internet porn that's responsible for all this. I don't know why anyone tries to pretend otherwise.

Christmasbrie · 21/12/2023 13:37

Aubaslice · 21/12/2023 13:20

The saddest thing about this thread - and is common on most forms of social media - is the absolute refusal to learn or consider someone else's opinion. It's incredible how many posters on here say an approximation of "I don't like it, it's wrong, the end."

It's perfectly fine to have concerns and there have been some legitimate arguments made about porn and male/female inequality. But such concerns shouldn't result in a refusal to learn or consider something new.

Far more dangerous than choking/strangulation is the behaviour of supposedly intelligent people when engaging with each other. It's the reason the country is f**ked and that there is so much anger and division. We will only be headed one way if we continue to have closed minds.

Women who are happy to comply with the sexual wants of men under the guise of violent kinks affects other teens and women though, so I think it's fair enough some feel passionately about it.

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:37

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:33

@NotBadConsidering even in my example it wouldn’t have gone “horribly wrong”. I’d have passed out for a few seconds then come back around. And the point was there’s plenty of time to let them know that’s happening.

It would only go horribly wrong if someone was intentionally trying to cause injury or death, which is a very different issue to what people enjoy in the bedroom. That requires a very specific intent.

Yet strangely that wasn’t considered to be enough to convict the men who caused the death. If it’s so clear that they must have intended to kill, and that if it had just gone a bit too far then the woman would have passed out and come round, why wasn’t that enough to convict?

You’re saying the only way to prevent death is to have a nice man do it to you. How can that be ensured?

autumn1610 · 21/12/2023 13:37

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 21/12/2023 13:33

So is it pretending to rape/be raped?

Do you mean the choking? For me no it’s nothing to do with pretending to be raped and that would not be ok with me.

SevenOnTheLabel · 21/12/2023 13:38

Why can't you accept that people like different things and there doesn't have to be any deep seated conditioning going on? It's offensive to say that as if people don't have their own minds and free will and no different to saying that people who exclusively like close cuddly sex must have been deprived of affection as a child

Because there is ‘deep seated conditioning’ going on. There’s so much of it thst it’s just become the ‘norm’.

It’s similar to having a pink toy aisle for girls and a blue toy aisle for boys. Of course boys and girls can have toys from the other aisle, but most go along with it because they are conditioned from day 1. Thankfully we’re beginning to think that blue and pink is a load of bollocks.

It’s laughable that people think they’re making a real choice, when the truth is they are heavily influenced by the narrative being pushed. So yes, you’re making a choice because it’s the ‘norm’ to many.

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:38

@anothernamitynamenamechange thats professionals not doing their job properly. Rape isn’t legal just because some people might role play it. The problem is that it’s difficult to evidence regardless as there’s no witnesses, sometimes no evidence.

Even if every woman right now decided no more rough sex, would that solve the problem? Would that stop a man saying she liked it? No, of course not. It also wouldn’t stop the CPS dropping cases with low likelihood of conviction either, that happens all the time.

horseyhorsey17 · 21/12/2023 13:40

anothernamitynamenamechange · 21/12/2023 13:33

I don’t think those who are the type that genuinely want to hurt women will hold out for someone who likes a bit of rough just to cover for themselves. If they are going to kill they’re going to kill. Not enjoying rough sex won’t save you.

Yes and then AFTER the fact they can claim that the woman DID enjoy rough sex and did ask for it and she won't be able to offer a counter narrative because she's dead.
Or (and this is something that has happened) a violent man can abuse his partner and when she reports it to the police the case is dropped by CPS because the violence happened during sex and is therefore of limits even though she was clear that she never consented to the violence, did not enjoy violent sex etc etc

The 'rough sex' defence does work actually. The Natalie Connelly case comes to mind - her scumbag partner claimed she'd consented to brutal sex acts which killed her, left her to bleed out, then got less than two years in prison. Basically got away with murder. Link attached but trigger warning as it's grim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killingof_Natalie_Connolly

Killing of Natalie Connolly - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Natalie_Connolly

anothernamitynamenamechange · 21/12/2023 13:41

At the end of the day, people will enjoy what they want and do what they want to do in the bedroom. Without monitoring everyone's bedrooms thats the way it would always be,

But if we started from the assumption that strangling someone/using extreme violence during sex is assault then the people doing it would just have to accept they were taking the risk that they could be accused of assault down the line. In the exact same way that some women/men are apparently happy to take the risk they might die/be brain damaged while being strangled at the moment. As a woman if someone asked me to strangle them during sex my response would be fuck no because (a) I would not enjoy that and (b) I really really would not want to deal with phoning the ambulance to say hi guys we went a bit far there's a corpse in my bed. Unless they are being physically overpowered and forced to put their hands round their partners throat men are perfectly capable of saying "no" and should do so. Everyone has the right not to do stuff in sex.

Those principles apply in other walks of life. e.g. If I asked my hairdresser to do DIY BBL surgery on me and it all went pear shaped she could still be prosecuted for criminal assault - even if I was stupid enough to ask her to do it