Page 7 | To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

ImTheGoat · 2023-12-21T11:24:48+00:00

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting [[https://wecantconsenttothis.uk https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/]] My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it [[https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation]] I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

lovelyoldtree · 21/12/2023 13:12

Well, BDSM and/or choking wouldn't be my thing. The little I know of BDSM is that "safe words" serve to keep the consenting partners safe from excessive pain or injury.

Would anyone encourage other women to engage in choking behaviours? Unlikely perhaps?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 13:13

This is the thing. It's everybody's problem. And is a perfect cover for abusive or murderous men: it is a normal thing; she loves it; she loved it; sex games gone wrong etc.

YY.

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:13

And if you can’t because you’re too oxygen deprived? And is there a risk it wouldn’t be noticed if it’s too soft a signal?

@NotBadConsidering it doesn’t happen that fast. We did have a little accident once where DP nearly choked me out (the elbow round neck from behind technique). He wasn’t squeezing really, just holding me but his muscles were tense and it obviously must have cut my blood supply. I started seeing stars but had plenty of time to tap out then fell forward on the bed confused. I was probably seconds from passing out, took me a minute or two to come back to reality. He was horrified may I add. He’s worked as a bodyguard and various security roles so he’s used this in anger before when being attacked, and thought the way he was holding me wouldn’t do a thing because he wasn’t really squeezing! It wasn’t intentional at all.

If you were actually going for the KO then it may happen a bit faster than that, but the point is you wouldn’t be going that hard if that wasn’t the intention. You work upwards not downwards.

Ramalangadingdong · 21/12/2023 13:14

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 11:46

@notsuredate err yes, of course some of us do.

I don’t go in for full on asphyxiation, but I like a had around my neck now and again. As long as you’re with someone you trust then it’s fine. My DP enjoys it too, but he is always a bit afraid of hurting me. He doesn’t go far with it.

I don’t think those who are the type that genuinely want to hurt women will hold out for someone who likes a bit of rough just to cover for themselves. If they are going to kill they’re going to kill. Not enjoying rough sex won’t save you.

Has your dp ever told you why he enjoys it, and do you ever do it to him? If so, what do you like about it? Also, what do you like about having a hand round your neck?

I should disclose that it would never work for me because someone once tried to strangle me. I am lucky to be here.

crumblingschools · 21/12/2023 13:14

Why do women like being hurt by men? Quite worrying when a poster has said they are submissive so that why they like being hit, bitten etc. Surely we need to be ensuring all girls do not grow up to be submissive.

Also I would worry if a man got enjoyments from choking, hitting, biting etc a woman. Does it make it okay if you end up having sex afterwards but in all other cases it is abuse.

YuleDragon · 21/12/2023 13:14

As for the question someone asked upthread (i forget who) i have both given/received strangulation/choking. The act of strangling my partner isn't what 'gets me off' its seeing them get turned on and enjoying what i'm doing that gets me off. Their pleasure gets me off.

If they aren't enjoying it, i'm not going to keep doing it, or anything else that is part of the kink play because that defeats the entire point which is that you BOTH enjoy what you're doing to each other.

To anyone reading this that hasn't done this before, if one of you isn't having fun, you shouldn't be doing it, full stop.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 21/12/2023 13:14

Aydahayda · 21/12/2023 13:09

You mean Michael Hutchence of INXS?

he committed suicide by hanging, not really the same thing??

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I thought it was auto-erotic asphyxiation.

TiredEvenForAPhoenix · 21/12/2023 13:15

horseyhorsey17 · 21/12/2023 12:49

I don't think any more women actually enjoy this than have ever been into fetish and kink - and of course, there have always been women who enjoy this but they've also always been a relatively tiny minority. When I became sexually active in the early 90s, choking, spitting and anal sex were not a thing. It wasn't something you'd be asked, let alone expected, to be into by sexual partners (and I wasn't exactly a shy, retiring, virginal thing). Now the accessibility of internet porn has mainstreamed and normalised what were previously niche kinks. It's also been extremely persuasive in getting women to buy into being the sort of 'cool girls' who do this instead of the frigid Karens who don't. Patriarchy wins again! I can't help but feel that if choking really was a thing that ordinary women, not into kink or fetish, enjoyed, then it would have been popular for centuries instead of the last 5-10 years or so.

Edited

Same! When I was a teenager, there was zero expectation of Hollywood waxes or shaved pubes on either sex, obviously no danger of shared nudes or secret filming during sex, I remember one girl got asked for anal by her boyfriend and we were all horrified - it was absolutely not the norm - and spitting or choking were acts of violent assault, not part of sex. I see all those things described on MN now as 'vanilla' and totally expected parts of sex. If you express any concern, you're told you're frigid, boring in bed and to stop clutching your pearls. Also, everyone denies that porn has anything to do with it - but all these acts have become mainstream since the advent of brutal internet porn, it's not a coincidence.

I am so grateful not to be a teenage girl right now or on the dating scene.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 13:15

I mean I think any 2 consenting adults would already know the risks

Why? When you're saying there is a "safe" way to do it (there isn't) and we aren't supposed to "kink shame" by discussing it as problematic?

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:15

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 13:08

Nobody is to blame for dying but with your assertion that people shouldn't engage in such things because of the risk involved, there's also a risk to hooking up with strangers

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So what goes wrong when strangulation goes wrong? How can it be prevented from going wrong? You seem to be saying it should only be done between two people who know each other well and trust each other, (ironically kind of policing behaviour there…)

If strangulation should only happen in this scenario to avoid situations where safe words and signs become pointless due to brain oxygen deprivation, how do we ensure it’s only done between trusting experienced couples?

lovelyoldtree · 21/12/2023 13:16

It's going to take me until well into the New year to blot out this image.
Disgusting.

greenbeansnspinach · 21/12/2023 13:17

Is it a new thing? Serious question. I had never heard of it until about a year ago. Grew up in the 60s. I find the idea depressing.

Comedycook · 21/12/2023 13:18

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:13

And if you can’t because you’re too oxygen deprived? And is there a risk it wouldn’t be noticed if it’s too soft a signal?

@NotBadConsidering it doesn’t happen that fast. We did have a little accident once where DP nearly choked me out (the elbow round neck from behind technique). He wasn’t squeezing really, just holding me but his muscles were tense and it obviously must have cut my blood supply. I started seeing stars but had plenty of time to tap out then fell forward on the bed confused. I was probably seconds from passing out, took me a minute or two to come back to reality. He was horrified may I add. He’s worked as a bodyguard and various security roles so he’s used this in anger before when being attacked, and thought the way he was holding me wouldn’t do a thing because he wasn’t really squeezing! It wasn’t intentional at all.

If you were actually going for the KO then it may happen a bit faster than that, but the point is you wouldn’t be going that hard if that wasn’t the intention. You work upwards not downwards.

Wtf

Comedycook · 21/12/2023 13:19

Personally I think we need more kink shaming not less. This is truly fucked up

Christmasbrie · 21/12/2023 13:19

greenbeansnspinach · 21/12/2023 13:17

Is it a new thing? Serious question. I had never heard of it until about a year ago. Grew up in the 60s. I find the idea depressing.

Porn is more extreme nowadays, images of women being submissive to whatever men want has seeped out into real life sadly. Strangulation being rebranded as a kink is a brilliant outlet for fucked up men to live out their weird fantasies on women who apparently love it.

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 13:19

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:15

So what goes wrong when strangulation goes wrong? How can it be prevented from going wrong? You seem to be saying it should only be done between two people who know each other well and trust each other, (ironically kind of policing behaviour there…)

If strangulation should only happen in this scenario to avoid situations where safe words and signs become pointless due to brain oxygen deprivation, how do we ensure it’s only done between trusting experienced couples?

Show quote history

I didn't say things should or shouldn't be done, you asked how it could be prevented and I offered a suggestion. People can do what they like but it's my opinion that engaging in anything that could go wrong, for any reason, with someone you don't/barely know is unwise. They won't know what your responses are like, it's unlikely that any kind of "what if" or "what do to when" conversation has taken place which is kind of key when partaking in any kind of BDSM safely.

A pp up there detailed what to do and what happens if things go wonky

YuleDragon · 21/12/2023 13:19

@greenbeansnspinach no it isn't a new thing, i'm 42 and been more than aware of it since i became sexually active at 17.

What is 'new' is it becoming more talked about in the media thanks to books like Shades of Grey...etc, and sites like Porn Hub.

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:20

SkySecret · 21/12/2023 13:13

And if you can’t because you’re too oxygen deprived? And is there a risk it wouldn’t be noticed if it’s too soft a signal?

@NotBadConsidering it doesn’t happen that fast. We did have a little accident once where DP nearly choked me out (the elbow round neck from behind technique). He wasn’t squeezing really, just holding me but his muscles were tense and it obviously must have cut my blood supply. I started seeing stars but had plenty of time to tap out then fell forward on the bed confused. I was probably seconds from passing out, took me a minute or two to come back to reality. He was horrified may I add. He’s worked as a bodyguard and various security roles so he’s used this in anger before when being attacked, and thought the way he was holding me wouldn’t do a thing because he wasn’t really squeezing! It wasn’t intentional at all.

If you were actually going for the KO then it may happen a bit faster than that, but the point is you wouldn’t be going that hard if that wasn’t the intention. You work upwards not downwards.

This is so horrifying to read. You say not that quick, but a few more seconds of distraction and it could have been completely different. You may have tapped, but clearly in the cases where women died they couldn’t. The margins are tiny.

agentcooperinthewhitelodge · 21/12/2023 13:20

I see all those things described on MN now as 'vanilla' and totally expected parts of sex

yes well that's just as hypocritical and shaming as it is for kinks.

Aubaslice · 21/12/2023 13:20

The saddest thing about this thread - and is common on most forms of social media - is the absolute refusal to learn or consider someone else's opinion. It's incredible how many posters on here say an approximation of "I don't like it, it's wrong, the end."

It's perfectly fine to have concerns and there have been some legitimate arguments made about porn and male/female inequality. But such concerns shouldn't result in a refusal to learn or consider something new.

Far more dangerous than choking/strangulation is the behaviour of supposedly intelligent people when engaging with each other. It's the reason the country is f**ked and that there is so much anger and division. We will only be headed one way if we continue to have closed minds.

BigandBeefy · 21/12/2023 13:21

oakleaffy · 21/12/2023 12:31

Elaine O’Hara was a very vulnerable woman preyed upon by a family man who got off on stuff such as this and murdered Elaine.
Thank goodness the curious Fishermen and young copper found the phone and other stuff dumped in the lake.

Otherwise he probably would have got away with it.
A very sad case.

I always think if Elaine O'Hara when I see threads like this. A really sad case.

SquirrelSoShiny · 21/12/2023 13:22

I agree we need more 'kink shaming' to be honest. I honestly worry for teenage girls going into relationships, especially with men older than them. The normalisation of porn culture is destroying the capacity for some young men and women to have safe, consensual relationships.

Original poster

ImTheGoat · 21/12/2023 13:24

Janewontmessage · 21/12/2023 12:54

@ImTheGoat how could this ever be policed? It is a pointless thing to raise - albeit interesting - because what people do in their personal time with a other person, on a sexual basis with consent, will always be between those two people.

I find it perverted that anyone would want to even attempt to red tape (pardon the pun) this sort of thing

I don't think it's about policing it but about raising awareness of the risks so that people can give informed consent if they (in my opinion foolishly, but to each their own) choose to partake. It's a practice that has grown more popular in the past few years but there hasn't been a corresponding* *public education campaign to go along with that. So it's a practice that has become normalised and young women may well think "oh, that sounds fun, I'll give it a try" without knowing the dangers.

During the AIDS epidemic for example there was a huge focus on safe sex education that undoubtedly prevented many deaths. That's why I think pointing out the dangers associated with this when it's discussed is important.

OP posts:

Comedycook · 21/12/2023 13:24

But such concerns shouldn't result in a refusal to learn or consider something new.

Refusing to learn or consider doing something which could result in death is perfectly sensible.

I hope more women are able to refuse to learn or consider this.

TempestTost · 21/12/2023 13:24

It seems obvious that it's dangerous, but I think we can see in general that sometimes people need someone to tell them the obvious.

There's probably a fair bit of difference to what people mean when they talk about this kind of thing though. In some cases it seems to be almost totally about the appearance that something is happening, but it's not actually restricting anyone's breathing. In other cases it's more serious.

I suppose that can be part of the issue, people may say the same words but mean something quite different, with a different risk profile.

I don't really subscribe to the idea that anything sexual is totally ok as long as people agree though. There are things that are overall bad psychologically, or are risky, or bad for society, and while it might not always make sense for those things to be illegal, people "judging" those activities is how we socially regulate that kind of thing. (And that's not just about sex, lots of stuff we don't make illegal is still frowned upon.)