To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

[ImTheGoat]

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

@Boomboom22 how can I be lying about my own choices? There’s a difference between the two statements of “stopping blood flow to your brain can lead to injury or death” which I don’t and haven’t disputed and “as an adult, people can decide whether they deem something safe enough for them to do” and if they feel happy to partake in an activity with a safe word, that’s up to them.

How do you feel about me going horse riding? Or skiing? Or open water swimming? What about me crossing the road? Driving 100 miles? Being a passenger in someone else’s car where I’m not the one in control? Going climbing and relying on a belay? Where does it end?

You do what you like, and I will do what I like. Stop with your “lying” nonsense, you sound like a 5 year old.

The POINT of feminism in this day and age is having the power to make our own minds up on how we live, what we like, and what we get to do.

No, I don't agree that's the point of feminism. That's a sort of inane, choosy choice "everything I do as a woman is feminist" version. Everyone has the right to take whatever risks they want. That doesn't mean no one can look at the wider problems in society. Feminism is about advocating for women and girls as a sex.

Shaming women particularly for sexual desire is wrong, I agree. But criticism of particular practices as harmful and dangerous on a wider level, and advocating for people of both sexes to fully understand the risks they are taking (which clearly many people don't) and calling out the normalisation, peer pressure and often coercion is part of feminism.

@NotBadConsidering i called it that because strangulation is an inaccurate description for what I have taken part in. Wouldn’t want to be accused of “lying” now would I? 🙄

It's the men who are doing the behaviour.

The problem is the propagation of the idea that women want them to do it.

You are lying because you repeatedly state there is a safe way to have hands near your throat. That is categorically untrue. If you read any of the links you would know this. So yes, you are an outright liar who says breath play is safe. And you will not accept reality. 🙂

@Ereshkigalangcleg FWIW I would never, ever want to call myself a feminist purely for the fact that feminism is attributed to some of the attitudes shown on this thread 😬😂

The issue isn’t highlighting risks, having different opinions, raising a concern. The issue here is the haughty, hyperbolic, ignorant and insulting attitudes that some posters have shown.

@Boomboom22 there is 🙂 hence I’m not dead.

I regularly wear a drysuit that has a neck seal tighter than that, you best get those banned too because it’s dangerous to touch anyone’s neck!! And actors, best stop any films with people pinning by the throat too. Can’t possibly touch someone else’s neck in safety now, can we?

"a hand round your neck" isn't strangling or choking. What is it you actually enjoy?

So, basically he was being careful. And you still nearly lost consciousness. Read the title of the thread- it's whether there needs to be education about the risks involved. And frankly, your posts on the thread are a strong argument that there needs to be. The discussion isn't actually about the (tedious) minutiae of your sex life.

The POINT of feminism in this day and age is having the power to make our own minds up on how we live, what we like, and what we get to do

But when you're exercising your 'power' to 'make your own mind up', that is still happening in the context of patriarchy. So feminism is right to critique that.

@Nicesalad personally I wouldn’t call it strangulation if there’s no obstruction to either breath or blood flow. If you choose to disagree on definitions that’s fine.

@Totallymessed read my actual posts - the reason I posted wasn’t to say “no one needs to know the risks” JFC, at least make comments that are relevant to what I’ve actually said. You described yourself really well there… tedious

Neither of us inflict pain or injury to the other. Some people may want to go that far, but not us

You contradict yourself. Because in an earlier post you explained in detail how he did in fact inflict injury on you, even when you both thought you were being 'safe'.

Look, do what you like. But understand that when you make multiple posts on a public forum minimising how extremely dangerous it is, you are contributing towards making women in general more unsafe.

It's true that all of those activities could harm you, but that's not why people do them. They do them for the fun of when it goes right and doesn't hurt you, apart from driving, which is largely just done out of necessity.

The point of 'breathplay' is that it does harm you, as restricting your airways and cutting off the ozygen to your brain is what happens when you are strangled. The kink is that you are being harmed - that's where the sexual gratification lies. It's clearly a learned behaviour, as most fetishes are, rather than something innate, as from an evolutionary POV it doesn't make sense at all.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify without attacking me. I have a clearer picture now.

Try not to take any notice. People attacking you are being so defensive for a reason.

@HunterBidensBurnerPhone I haven’t minimised a thing. I’ve talked purely about my own choices and experiences.

If this thread was “ok, so we know and understand that some people choose to do this and enjoy it, so what can we do to make it safer and ensure they understand more about it?” I probably wouldn’t have even read the thread.

The only issue I have is the ridiculous comments of “this should be BANNED!!” “Women NEVER EVER want to do this!!” “NO woman enjoys this! No matter WHAT they say!!”

it’s pure ignorance, and just conjures images of a load of hyacinth bucket figures. It does nothing to support anyone or keep anyone safe, it just makes those people look and sound like ignorant arseholes that want to interfere in other people’s lives. They will never make an impact. They’ll do the opposite.

So what is it you like about a hand round your neck? The thought that you ,could potentially be strangled? Or something else?

@Ramalangadingdong I have no desire to attack you or anyone else. The problem is the people who cannot have a reasonable discussion with anyone who thinks differently to them. More than happy to talk to people who are not being blinded by their own ignorance.

Thats the problem. It should be clear cut murder charge, not manslaughter. If the choker is a big enough idiot to get a kick out the fun risk of murder, it should be clear cut that they are signing up for a fun life sentence. Its always unprovable whether a dead victim was a consenting idiot or not, and irrelevant. Premeditative murder of an idiot is still murder.

Thats the problem. It should be clear cut murder charge, not manslaughter. If the choker is a big enough idiot to get a kick out the fun risk of murder, it should be clear cut that they are signing up for a fun life sentence. Its always unprovable whether a dead victim was a consenting idiot or not, and irrelevant. Premeditative murder of an idiot is still murder

Precisely. Manslaughter would presume the victim consented to her possible death. The presumption should automatically be the other way so that it becomes a murder by default.

I don't see people who are blinded by their own ignorance, I just think they're asking quite challenging questions, that's all. I don't think it's possible to reconcile the two positions on strangling. Nothing can change my mind; I will always see it as a form of violence and I will always be baffled that some women get sexual gratification from it.

@Ramalangadingdong you’re allowed to view it how you like, you’re allowed to not understand how someone can get gratification from it. I myself don’t understand the desire to genuinely have your breathing cut off, that’s not what it’s about for me. I also don’t understand how some women enjoy licking another woman’s vagina, but I don’t go around calling them disgusting for it. That’s not my business.

As I’ve said, if this was actually a constructive conversation rather than a witch hunt, it might actually serve a purpose and do some good. As it stands it does nothing but alienate the people it claiming to try to protect.

it’s pure ignorance, and just conjures images of a load of hyacinth bucket figures. It does nothing to support anyone or keep anyone safe

This doesn't make sense because the main thrust of this thread has been about how to raise awareness of the danger so that women can be more safe.

The only issue I have is the ridiculous comments of “this should be BANNED!!” “Women NEVER EVER want to do this!!” “NO woman enjoys this! No matter WHAT they say!!”

I personally no investment in trying to argue that I know what women should want better than they know themselves.

However I am interested in understanding why they think they want it. Re-enacting male violence in a sexual context seems to me to be more about reclaiming power and trying to reframe trauma than it does about sexuality, but that's up for debate I guess.

The thing I am most concerned about is that there are men who will happily re-enact life threatening violence against women. I'm highly sceptical that the woman's sexual pleasure is their main motivation to do so.

A murder charge as the default with a high conviction rate would help to redress the discrepancy in risk between the two supposedly consenting adults in this practice, increasing the safety for (mostly) women.

If one person consents to risk of injury, disability and death and the other person consents to a real, not hypothetical, risk of murder conviction and long sentence, it might make some people think before laying hands on another's neck. As it stands the person who is doing the strangling or carotid artery compression takes on very little risk.

*I personally no investment in trying to argue that I know what women should want better than they know themselves.

However I am interested in understanding why they think they want it.*

@HunterBidensBurnerPhone ahh you were so close…. you were almost accepting of people’s differences then until you put your own opinions back into it. I don’t think I want it, I know what I want and I make that decision myself.