To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

[ImTheGoat]

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

@anothernamitynamenamechange I can respectfully disagree with you here and bid you a good day 😊

Because I believe it effects all of us women if men treat women like this. I feel the same about porn. I don't believe that men can treat women one way in the bedroom yet regard them in another way out of it. If men enjoy dominating and harming women sexually, or masturbating to images of women being hurt and controlled, then that will effect how they view all women.

These normalisation of these sexual practices will effect all of us, not just those who say that want it or the one third of young women who have experienced unwanted choking or slapping during sex.

Exactly!

No, not none

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/man-who-choked-partner-death-25381675

You can disagree all you like but you are wrong

e.g. I like chocolate tablet - fact (I do, I know I do).
Chocolate tablet is yummy - matter of opinion (I might think it is, you might think it isn't. we are both neither right nor wrong
Chocolate tablet is really good for preventing diabetes and actually an all chocolate diet would be healthy and effective as a covid vaccine - objectively not true. It doesn't matter how much I "respectively disagree" with my doctor. Reality remains real.

I've never heard of a woman having died through autoerotic asphyxiation. Men, I've read about. I personally knew a man who died that way.

I've heard of lots of men being admitted to hospital because they've shoved all sorts of things up their arses and been unable to get them out. I've not read about any women who have done that.

How many women like to strangle themselves on their own? How many women get toothbrushes and the like stuck up their backsides when trying a bit of self-pleasure?

Very few, I would expect. These practices may have been adopted by women when engaging with sex with another person (usually a man) but it seems as though women pleasure themselves in other ways when left to their own devices.

Non fatal strangulation is a actually an offence now as part
of the new Domestic Abuse Act

This is why I begged that posters get the law right. It is an offence to strangle someone without consent, and it always has been, obviously. But consent to non-fatal strangulation (absent serious harm) is a complete defence.

Whether there was consent or whether there was (non-consentable) serious harm is a matter of fact for the court.

@anothernamitynamenamechange Im not sure who you’re trying to prove things to now but it’s not me 🤣

It is all about good communication. I know it’s not normal and “standard” it is something I sometimes do with someone where we have mutual respect for each other and our limits. I’ve said to him I enjoy it and when we no longer carrying on seeing each other I would expect that he asks the next woman he sees before he even thinks about putting a hand on her neck and I would hope that if she didn’t like it she would make it clear from the start it’s not for her. When I sometimes decide I want to partake in it, I’m the one that tends to lead it and we dont take it to the levels of being passed out, for me that’s a no go and we are constantly checking in throughout with each other to check we are both enjoying it. I’ve never had better communication during sex. I don’t see me enjoying something as his free pass to do it to the next person and I don’t believe he does either. We’ve talked about other stuff he’s done with others and I’m like no that’s not for me, and we don’t do it and it isn’t pushed for.

I fully advocate for safe sex, respect for limits and boundaries and I think there should be whole other discussion on porn as a lot of it in my opinion is toxic and better sex education for teenagers where it is really communicated about consent and boundaries.

Well I guess disagree on this matter then.
There are a lot of things other people like which I find strange or unappealing but I can accept that it’s something they enjoy.

Oh come on... I am not responsible for the kind of sex anyone is having beyond myself and my partner. I don't think anyone is running around telling people irl oh you should do this or this because I do all the time and think it's great. Collective responsibility, wise up

For what its worth I also want to make sure my son understands the dangers of strangling someone. Partly because I dont want him to kill someone for their sake and also for his own sake. Telling boys its something you can do "safely" is criminal. (and those conversations don't need to take place just during sex education. Its basic parenting to tell smaller children not to put things round their own/other necks during games, not to grab necks while play fighting). If someone was telling him different when he was older Id hit the roof.

100% agree! ^

Some people on this thread seem to be of the misapprehension that one can consent to assault. There is a common law principle that a person cannot consent to bodily harm, serious injury or death. So the whole "it's fine between consenting adults", and you just need to understand the risks is wrong. It's like saying one can consent to cannibalism or murder. Ya can't.

I couldn't find UK stats. In the USA statistics say somewhere between 250-1000 people per year die when participating in consensual choking during sex. I think one is too many but each to their own.

but assume those wanting it, know of the risks.

Why? Do people strike you as particularly good at evaluating multiple competing messages to make an objective decision nowadays? What about those who don't want it but feel they have to because of peer pressure?

Well there are a lot of things other people like which I find strange or unappealing too but I accept its something they enjoy. Ice baths, for example. Owning dogs. Or ultra running. So if your case, as it seems to be, is that if I don't like something, then no-one should, is far from the mark.

There are other things that I think are harmful more widely , which means, in my opinion, they cannot be justified by an uber free market ' my personal choice' argument.

And I'd put misogynistic porn ( which is most of it), the misnamed 'race play' and strangulation amongst this.

There are also practices, like nullification surgery, that cause such harm to the individual that they also should not be justified by a free market ' personal choice' model.

i hope you do tell your son that and if he is asked to do it, he needs to decide if it is something he wishes to do, and if it is he should look at the “safer” ways, there is always a risk. And that what he sees in porn isn’t reality and this is done purely for people’s “entertainment” that both parties should be comfortable and he shouldn’t push his preferences on someone. There is a whole other subject of porn and the expectations it puts on people. There is nothing wrong with only wanting “vanilla” (I hate that term) and it should be something that is taught better in schools

@FreshWinterMorning That's one of the things that annoys me the most about how things are at the moment. Its not people doing dangerous/harmful stuff that they genuinely enjoy in the privacy of their own bedrooms. You can't really stop that from happening any more than you can stop people eating teaspoons of cinnamon for a dare etc etc. Its the insistence that it is safe and the fact that they will keep on trying to convince others that it is safe (both on here and more widely in the media/porn etc. Like why? Why would you want to persuade other people so much. Despite all the evidence that it is harmful and life threatening.

It's always the dick owner strangling the vagina person isn't it. Despite it being an activity that employs neither body part. You never hear it the other way around. So for me the fact that it follows the same boring misogynist axis of oppression, whilst literally being the means by which some men actually do kill women, makes it problematic.

I don't believe sex exists outside of wider culture. I think it's fine to analyse any misogynist sex stuff. Or ableist or racist for that matter. Experience has taught me that people who get off on prejudices and huge power imbalances bring that attitude into their wider life in some way.

Here's a nice stat for where normalizing this gets you:

"We Can’t Consent to This also reported that women were being seriously injured in what men claim to be consensual sexual violence, stating that it is now commonplace for a woman to be assaulted and abused by men they’re dating, with 38% of UK women under the age of 40 reporting being assaulted, choked, slapped, gagged or spat on, as part of otherwise consensual sex."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-abuse-bill-2020-factsheets/consent-to-serious-harm-for-sexual-gratification-not-a-defence 

This, and the choker should be held to account if "it goes wrong" just as they would be held to account for causing death by drink driving.

I find it striking that porn from the 90s and before contains no choking, except in the BDSM section. As you gradually go through the years, it becomes just a standard part of mainstream porn, not even a kink. The actors behave as if every woman likes this, along with the now obligatory endless smacking, which I find incredibly off-putting to watch. Obviously there will be women who enjoy it, but it is hard to believe that the majority of women now enjoy either choking or spanking, when they didn't 30 years ago. Then again maybe sex is all subject to fashion and therefore enjoyment follows.

@ImTheGoat

I am going to have a guess

Women don't enjoy being chocked,

Why on earth would 😕 any woman enjoy her patner attempting to chock =strangle her then!!!?

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever

This is extreme misogynistic sado machismo warped sick fantasty inspired by hardcore films or mags

I have been choked once in my life by my very violent and dangerous stepfather when I was 12. I suffer from MH issues due to this and other things he used to do to me . I know people are talking about consenting adults here and this obviously was nothing to do with it . But it’s very much a move to feel powerful.

It is being normalised and that is the issue just like anal sex and women shaving has completely been normalised. Stuff like this has always gone on but it is the move to complete mainstream and the pressure some may feel to take part and conform.