To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

[ImTheGoat]

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

This.

I despair and rage at abuse like this becoming normalised by porn. Those who say they enjoy it: not every itch needs to be scratched. Give your head a wobble.

The sooner 'kinks' like this get criminalised, the better.

I struggle to believe any woman enjoys it, they just do it because it's what men want.

A prime example of negative effects of porn on women.

@anothernamitynamenamechange I mean, I’m glad he doesn’t want to hurt me obviously 🤣

It would only cause brain damage if held on for a period of time, which he knows and I know. He’s not going to hold that in place on me (or anyone else) at the point of unconsciousness as the goal has already been obtained. That’s the point I was making about intent here. To hold at that point is intent to cause harm or death. He’s not in that industry anymore so won’t be using it in anger again (unless we’re attacked in the street I guess!)

He’s never used it for “restraint” - that would be pinning to the floor, cuffing etc. it’s a brief movement used to incapacitate someone who is aggressive. It takes seconds to KO someone with it and shouldn’t be held in place. So yeah, I can see why someone using it as restraint has got themselves into bother!

Yeah this! None! Exactly as I was saying. It's only men that do it to women. You never hear of women doing it to men, not in real life, only in the parallel world of mumsnet.

And just as I predicted and just as I said, we've got a small number of posters on this thread mocking and berating and laughing at people who don't do it, saying 'you need to open your mind,' and 'you need to stop being so ignorant. Some women enjoy being choked and having a penis shoved in their anus.'

Well, you know what? I will never believe that women enjoy either one at all. So there you go. And don't tell me that I am ignorant and not open minded -because you know fuck-all about me. I think anal sex and choking sex are both absolutely grim. Yes, this is what's FreshWinterMorning thinks.

So - to the poster who mentioned me - you can go and put that in your diary if you want. I am actually flattered and honoured that someone thought 'I wonder what FreshWinterMorning will say about this?!' - (I forget which poster said it.) How lovely to be remembered and noticed. Awww, I have my own little fanbase on here.

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He’s not in that industry anymore so won’t be using it in anger again

What does "using it in anger" mean?

Apart from anything, I'm not aware of any woman who has died from autoerotic asphyxiation. I've read about quite a few men who have.

I haven't Googled it, but I imagine the numbers of women who die through autoerotic asphyxiation must be a tiny percentage of the overall numbers.

That's one reason I take the view that this practice of strangulation during sex is primarily driven by men.

Secondly, I was using 'going along with' more in the sense of 'engaging with'. This is a practice far riskier for women than for men (compare the numbers of women who die during 'rough sex' with the numbers of men). By engaging with the practice, women serve to normalize it, which can then put pressure on other, more vulnerable women to agree to do it without being fully apprised of the dangers.

Yes I saw 2 different comments saying they enjoyed choking. & that its their own business. I agree. It's patronising to assume grown women who enjoy this, don't know the risks. Why should you know any better than them? I couldn't do it, can't bear the thought in fact. I don't even trust men in terms of it going wrong - be that "accidentally" or purposely. But its choice - I mean what are you going to be able to do about it anyway? You can discuss it to kingdom come but you're neither in the bedroom with them or part of their relationship or BDSM fantasy. It'll just be women arguing amongst each other forward and against at best, then it'll all fizzle out.

I'd say different if for instance it was to a group of secondary school girls being taught about sexual boundaries and their absolute right not to do or agree to anything they're uncomfortable with. But it never is, is it? Because inappropriate behaviours aren't checked beyond a load of futile talk. This is the society adults have handed to young women, not that this would be admitted. You only have to look at abysmal situations on Relationships Board that women put up with, to know that their daughters have no female role model.

Talk openly to your daughters alongside doing all you can to show them their worth. That's what everyone should be doing. Whatever their chosen path, at least parent will have tried to ensure they're informed

@Winterknights thank you for your post. I 100% agree with you.

@NotBadConsidering I have answered some of that for you already, in that you’d always have a chance to tap out. The problem would lay with a man who already had some kind of murderous intent (which he’d have anyway). In my case, I am confident my DP doesn’t wish to hurt me physically in any sense, sexual or otherwise. I don’t go in for full “breath play”, I can always breathe myself. If he pressed too hard I’d tap straight away.

I appreciate your differing views, and some of your concerns, perhaps not all of them. But it’s not possible to police people’s consenting sexual choices, and I won’t be changing how I choose to have sex with my partner just because someone else doesn’t like it.

or David Carradine ... or the young member of my family who was found by his grandparents who always believed him to be murdered and cut off his parent who they considered to be uncaring because she wasn't fighting for justice.

YANBU.

See also fisting, and various other sex practises that can be dangerous.

What does "using it in anger" mean?

@Comedycook it means using something in the real world, for its real purpose. As opposed to say training or practicing. We use it on the boats eg we train in towing other boats but rarely “use it in anger” - I.e in a genuine time of need

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/in-anger#:~:text=If%20you%20do%20something%20in,a%20ball%20kicked%20in%20anger.

Each to their own. I assume it would be discussed between consenting adults or asked for like most kinks. I also wouldn't be interested in rough sex or BDSM, but assume those wanting it, know of the risks.

What’s makes you think you are more aware of the dangers of a sexual practice you don’t partake in than the people who are actually partaking in it??

Non fatal strangulation is a actually an offence now as part
of the new Domestic Abuse Act
It is also a high risk indicator of harm and homicide.

the strength needed to inflict lasting damage is as much as opening a can of coke

doctors and GPs are seeing more young women under 30 In stroke clinics due to this
I would recommend this for reading.

https://ifas.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/There-is-No-Safe-Way-to-Strangle-IFAS-Position-statement-22-November-2023.pdf

@FreshWinterMorning the 'open your mind' comments are not suggesting that you partake in these activities but rather than you try and accept that others have different viewpoints than yours. I find it quite offensive actually that posts on this thread are implying that I can't possibly like what I like in the bedroom, and only do so due to repressed childhood trauma/the patriarchy/porn/because I'm a 'pick me'

I've no problem with people being passionate. It's the refusal to accept other viewpoints that troubles me. There's certainly a discussion to be had, particularly on the point you raised. But many in the thread have given the impression that there should be no discussion at all.

Equally rancid. Who the F actually enjoys this?! Come ON!

Also, if you claim to enjoy it - it's not just about you. You are helping to normalise a dangerous practice that can cause serious harm or death (as it already has!), and make young girls (or women in abusive relationships) think that this is something they should let men do to them because it's 'normal'.

Take a bit of collective responsibility.

and when she becomes sexually active she needs to know that what lads have seen in porn videos is not how regular people have sex

The sad truth is that, thanks to porn programming people's sexual desires, porn sex is becoming how regular people have sex. And that is sex focussed on men's pleasure and their pleasure in hurting women.

I feel like there's a lot of men on this thread. Of course THEY enjoy it.

This cuts both ways. The ones who (allegedly) enjoy weird kinks in sex seem to mock and berate people who think it's grim. They don't like to hear that others think it's horrible (anal/choking/fisting.) I wonder why? They seem annoyed and quite angry that many women on here don't like it. It's very strange. Some posters trying to convince other women that it's enjoyable to them is NOT going to make the other women change their mind(s.) These posters are stronger than that, and are not easily led.

@FreshWinterMorning but you ARE ignorant. You get yourself in some right flaps about things that don’t affect you. You don’t want to do it, no one is asking you to, move on.

If you don’t want to believe other people’s own experiences and truths then yep, that makes you ignorant.

And it wasn’t til you posted that I thought of you 🤣 deffo wouldn’t call it a “fan base” sorry to disappoint 😬 you just stand out for your unreasonable haughtiness and ignorance.

Equally rancid. Who the F actually enjoys this?! Come ON!

@FreshWinterMorning again, what’s the point of this reply? I don’t do fisting. I couldn’t fit one up there and it would hurt like hell if anyone tried! But that doesn’t mean I talk disparagingly about people who do…. if they enjoy it, good for them 👍🏻 doesn’t affect me in the slightest and I don’t feel a need to comment or insult them! Who knew that was an option? 🤣

@SkySecret You are 100% entitled to enjoy what you enjoy. And you are right that no-one else can tell you how to feel. However, to go back to the original title of the thread it is very clear from you responses that neither you (or your partner) actually do understand the risks. e.g. "It would only cause brain damage if held on for a period of time, which he knows and I know. " and " I can see why someone using it as restraint has got themselves into bother!" (bother in this case being the death of someone). What you and your partner believe is not true. It just isn't. You are both entitled to believe what you believe but I am glad that he doesn't work "in that industry" any more since that level of wilful naivety is dangerous.