To think modern parenting is contributing to PND etc?

[Naptrappedmummy]

Because I think it could be. We seem to expect so much of parents now compared to 30 years ago. Never let them cry alone, not even for a minute. If you do you’ll damage them beyond all repair. Keep them entertained 24/7 - fun days out, educational activities, cultural capital, enriching hobbies. Know who all their friends are, what they get up to every second of the day and the ins and outs of their entire life so you can micro manage it to prevent any upset (older children obviously). Intervene if their teacher tells them off or they fall out with a mate - never let them be put down or feel ‘unsupported’. Make sure they have their own room as sharing is unfair. Be in character 24/7, never raise your voice or show your anger/frustration, deal with everything serenely and with wisdom. Hug them if they smack you, don’t even show you are irritated. And so on. The expectations seem so high - you’re either the perfect mum or a shit one, nothing is ‘good enough’ any more.

It seems like such an overwhelming and unmanageable burden for mums that I’m not surprised so many have PND (including me) and mum burnout over the years.

AIBU?

No not at all. Early motherhood is incredibly hard. It is overwhelming and lonely. That coupled with the perfect portrayals on sm can send anyone into pnd.
You can feel like you have to do ALL of the things to be good enough, but its not true. Noone expects perfection in any other area of life

I think the "expectation" to have the perfect birth doesn't help. Women shouldn't feel like they've failed if the need assistance, a c section, pain relief etc. And then if they can't (r don't want to) breastfeed.

But most of things on your list is completely unconnected to the post natal period.

No. I had horrendous PND and complications which came with it for three long years. Both my sisters had it too. I started an online support group and it went global. That was in 1999. There were parenting pressures back then too. I suspect my mum had it and was never diagnosed. That was in 1967.

I agree with you. I think the toxicity starts with NCT classes and carries on from there. The endless comparisons - from birth experience to baby milestones. The one-upmanship.

Also the internet (I count FB groups and MN in this) means you can have women from all over the globe criticising your choices and parenting style.

Life a couple of generations ago might have lacked so many different sources of peer support, but there were also fewer avenues to feel like shit about yourself.

I think people put pressure on themselves though. Looking at all the fake Instagram pages showing fake perfect families on their fake perfect days out. Taking a step back from social media, lowering expectations in yourself and DC and becoming aware that children need downtime too not a endless list of extracurricular activities to fill the eventual personal statement for university.

I don't think mums of yesteryear had it any easier it was just harder in a different way. We have so much technology in our lives to make it easier. Although generations ago you would only be comparing your children to the rest of your street and everyone would be similar instead of comparing them to the children of the world

I think there is more exposure to different parenting styles and opinions seen than it being up to modern parenting whatever that actually means.

There’s also the forgetting that all babies are individual personalities and aren’t the same, born to parents who may find them easier or more difficult to handle due to their own personalities and circumstances.

Totally agree OP. There is much less of people relying on their own instincts, and much less of a sense that ‘good enough is good enough’ much less acceptance that we will all get it wrong sometimes/alot that’s ok, because we’re trying our best.

With the deluge of information, advice, inspiration out there on the internet, Social media, that you can’t avoid even if you try, that is adding pressure all the time, yes we have more insight which is great, but without our own skills of judgement, tolerance and acceptance along the way means we are all holding ourselves and each other to impossibly high standards.

Our parents didnt have it easier but they were kinder to themselves and each other. That made all the difference.

I honestly think that we've lost sight of the benefit of just being a good enough parent.

I agree, also we don't trust the village with our children now do we.

And don’t forget the fucking elf.
every day

yanbu

YANBU- It's gone completely batshit.

I agree. I had my children in the 80's and it was really up to me how I brought them up. Apart from going to prenatal classes and reading a couple of books, parenting was nobody's business except my own. I was able to enjoy being a mother without having to compare myself to anyone on social media - it was actually fun. I feel sorry for young mothers today - it all seems very stressful.

Honestly I think the perceived bar for parenting 30+ years ago was a lot lower, even my own parent has said this and she didn't cope well with small children and has told me she visited the doctor about it.
I look at the opportunities I had and I had quite a lot that my parents helped me with, but there was not so great an expectation on 'interfering' with anything that happened at school unless school contacted them. There was no concept of how my parents actions affected my friendships and consequences of that to me personally. There was no expectation to constantly entertain or provide opportunities to socialise outside school. A sibling that would be considered to be raised as an only child due to age gap has been raised quite differently to myself and I am assuming that was because times and expectations had changed in the interim.
These are not to do with PND though and my parents did the best that they knew how to do, as I am sure is the case with most parents today.

I don't know about it being specifically related to PND, but I think it definitely has an impact on mental health of mothers in general while raising their children.

The bombardment of information on how to raise your children, the pushing of the idea that if you only put in the effort you can give your children the best possible chance in life, is daunting to say the least.
The people who take this on board are already those who do their very best for their kids, probably to do with how algorithms work on phones etc.
You end up with mothers scared sick in case she forgot to cut up one of the grapes in the lunch box or that one tiny blip in primary school means their child will never succeed.

A lot of those things you've mentioned are for older school age children though? Which may contribute to depression but not necessarily post natal.

I do think the nct natural childbirth agenda, lack of breastfeeding support, and isolation of new mums (eg less extended family support) and cut backs in health visiting and family services such are sure start centres, does not help at all. And other pressures in society which means mental illness has exploded

@uclpp but the Elf is about managing expectations too.

We started doing the Elf before it was a big thing, he was well behaved and would leave trinkets (decorations) or ingredients for Christmas recipes or crafts occasionally and would move and hide with a gold coin every night.
When I went back to work I couldn't manage juggling work, nursery and the Elf so he became a supervisor elf that could only visit at the weekend as he was so busy keeping on eye on the misbehaving elves, although he still managed to leave a gold coin ( instead of having an advent calendar). So we still had the magic but in a way that didn't add extra stress and DD was fine with it. Once she stopped believing the Elf became her responsibility and she started to hide it.

I thank the lord I never bought into the elf shit as I recognised it as another burden I could do without 😂

YABU. This really is just basic parenting.

We know more than we did 30 years ago, so we should do better now. Parents back then were ignorant and lackadaisical.

Yes I agree actually! And I’ve thought so for a long time. My eldest child is 9, youngest is 1, and things have changed even in that time. I see new mums almost entirely reliant on apps to tell them how to parent (inputting feeds and nappies etc etc).

In addition to that, what I find stressful personally, is the idea that we have very little privacy and are constantly ‘being watched’. Videos, photos, comments being put on the internet. Mummy groups on Facebook asking about ‘the parent and child with the red coat’ or whatever. Everyone standing to judgement constantly. And not even on something they may have witnessed in a moment… that moment may be immortalised in the internet forever!

And school, and play dates and the parents (usually mums…) having to be on multiple apps and WhatsApp groups etc etc. constant pinging and updates and what not. It’s all too much.

And even this idea that ‘we know more now’?! Do we?! We think we do, but that information may change, develop, become outdated.

Surely at some stage our predecessors thought they knew best too!

Definitely an expectation of clean house- clean mine daily and it's just as bad the next day; perfectly dressed, clean, well adjusted kids- erm have you ever met children??? A career which you can magically fit around the school run, pantos, trips; joining in with social activities every weekend and being upbeat and friendly along with seeing other friends, family and keeping up hobbies and exercise. That base line is a lot. A lot of juggling. It ignores sleepless nights, teething, illness, relationship problemsetc etc etc,

Yes lots of people do seem to manage it but a significant amount struggle and aren't necessarily supported when they admit that. So they don't admit it and sink into depression.

There certainly appears to be help but this isn't always the case.

Agree and I think a lot of people place the stress upon themselves because they think it’s normal and have too many people likely telling them what they should/shouldn’t be doing that it becomes overwhelming where they can’t trust themselves.

modern parenting is a completely different ball game. It’s IMPOSSIBLE.

if I cried as a baby I was put in the pram and left in the garden “for fresh air”. If I misbehaved as a toddler I was told
disciplined without concern over whether it would further “negative behaviours”, or emotional validation. As a child, my parents had no responsibility over their actions dictating how I would go on to form all future relationships.

eveything now seems to be a threat to ‘ruining’ our children. Everything we do is wrong and given so much weight. Oh that one time you positively reinforced the child’s outcome instead of their intent? That will make them be a people pleaser and seek external validation. Don’t say ‘good job!’, say ‘good effort!’. It’s impossible.

Agree with this. 50 years ago, our parents believed that teaching hard work and discipline was obviously the best way to have successful adults and if that involved hitting and regular punishments, then so be it.

Of course we know more now. That’s how time works

I didn’t say we knew best, but we do know more than we did 30 years ago and we can put that knowledge to good use.