To think modern parenting is contributing to PND etc?

[Naptrappedmummy]

Because I think it could be. We seem to expect so much of parents now compared to 30 years ago. Never let them cry alone, not even for a minute. If you do you’ll damage them beyond all repair. Keep them entertained 24/7 - fun days out, educational activities, cultural capital, enriching hobbies. Know who all their friends are, what they get up to every second of the day and the ins and outs of their entire life so you can micro manage it to prevent any upset (older children obviously). Intervene if their teacher tells them off or they fall out with a mate - never let them be put down or feel ‘unsupported’. Make sure they have their own room as sharing is unfair. Be in character 24/7, never raise your voice or show your anger/frustration, deal with everything serenely and with wisdom. Hug them if they smack you, don’t even show you are irritated. And so on. The expectations seem so high - you’re either the perfect mum or a shit one, nothing is ‘good enough’ any more.

It seems like such an overwhelming and unmanageable burden for mums that I’m not surprised so many have PND (including me) and mum burnout over the years.

AIBU?

Not modern parenting but modern expectations of parents, particularly mothers. You pretty much have to accept you can't win, develop a thick skin and have your children's back.

Conversation with a breastfeeding support worker:
Me: I'm exhausted. They cry whenever I try and leave the room at night. I need to sleep.
Woman: tinkly laugh Mine is 5 and I'm still exhausted, they just want to be close to you.

We must sacrifice ourselves upon the altar. And if you deviate from what other perceive as the right thing, it's taken as a personal attack. Like, Oh wow. You're BLW? Are you saying my child hasn't been fed properly? And so on.

I also found hypnobirthing quite toxic in its positivity and lack of realism even before I gave birth. Not everyone’s experience, I know! After an EMCS and birth nothing like I ‘visualised’, I was quite deflated.

There were pressures a generation or so ago but they were different.
We had no internet so didn't have 24 hr access to advice, baby groups,. someone to chat to but then we had no Instagram etc of the (fake) perfect family.
There was always the worry of cot death (this was when we were told to keep baby warm and to sleep face down so was not as rare as it is now) and no rules about car seats.
I remember getting told off by a health visitor for allowing an afternoon nap to continue past 3pm as baby has to be in bed for the night at 6pm and to stay asleep until 6am.
As for the birth - one of the ante natal classes was - what if things don't quite go to plan and included showing us the nicu and the theatres.
There was far less pressure to return to work as housing was more affordable and childcare virtually non existent.
But I agree - not an easy job with a newborn

I had a child 30 years ago I had horrific pnd I was ill for months and months. parenting changes research on child rearing is always going to be around it was back then I had qualification in child development so I went with the latest advice and still had a mental illness.

And a big fat YES to the sleep/hypnobirthing nonsense. I know somebody about to attempt a dangerous and very high risk home birth because she’s been following an Instagram birth ‘expert’ who has simply told her her body knows what to do. I don’t know her well enough to say anything but until the baby has arrived safe and well I’m actually quite on edge about it.

As for the sleeping, I posted a couple of weeks ago because I was in a black hole of exhaustion with 9 month old DS. He was waking every hour or 2 hours to breastfeed, and had been for months, and awake for the day at 5am. I was leaving pans to boil dry, forgetting peoples names and what day it was. I felt like I had dementia. I too was met with ‘awwww he’s so little; he just wants to be with you mama’ by mum friends. One night I literally thought fuck this, made sure he was fed and comfortable and clean, put him in his cot and made up a bed on the sofa. We both slept for a solid 7 hours. This is now what we do every night.

And I can’t be sure it’s because he’s sleeping better but his development since has been remarkable - his babbling has gone from shrieks to proper word sounds, he’s learning new things all the time, it’s like he’s catching up from his days of being too exhausted to do anything.

Just to be clear I don’t think hypnobirthing is nonsense, I meant just the extreme promoters who make women feel guilty

I think part of the problem is that at the same time that expectations of 'mothering' have been inflated to a level that is totally unrealistic (via not just all the social media nonsense PPs have mentioned, but also a million parenting 'experts' etc trying to flog books, courses and other nonsense) the actual, available time for active parenting has shrunk dramatically in most families because of the cost of living/ increasing need for families to have two incomes to afford mortgages/ women rightly taking a more active role in the workforce.
Much as we all know the expectations are ridiculous - particularly in the context of current financial and logistical realities - it's really easy to fall into the trap of extrapolating -from social media snapshots or brief glimpses of other peoples' lives - that we're doing a bad job.
Whereas in reality most of us are probably doing absolutely fine and all this comparison/ sense of failure is really not helping our mental health, or that of our kids.

OMG. Forty years a speaker from the La Leche League said that you had to lead a life of leisure to breastfeed . It was so ridiculous and would have put me off if I hadn't come from a long line of breastfeeders

@Naptrappedmummy I also had the same experience with my baby at 14 months - as soon as she was sleep trained and sleeping a proper stretch in a cot, the change was remarkable - she suddenly started sitting up for a full breakfast in the morning, eating way more solids, and was so much more awake and alert and chatty in the day. I'm sure it's linked. I'd been told all the co-sleeping / feeding on demand all night was the right way and I just had to basically suck up the exhaustion - but actually, it was holding back her development - she needed proper sleep as much as I did.

I have a great deal of pity for new mums today. In my day we could only compare ourselves to family members with children and mums who lived on our streets. Women these days, thanks to social media, have the entire world to compare themselves. And people wonder why more and more women are choosing to not bother at all with motherhood🤔

My grandmother had such bad PND in 1954 her two older children were sent away for 3 months (my mother - who never quite got over this).

I also had PND but it kicked in 3 weeks after the birth and was debilitatingly a switch in my brain that flicked. It had nothing to do with trying to be perfect or keep up. It was a much more fundamental confusion about why I had a baby that I felt zero connection to and couldn’t see the point of looking after. Needless to say I had to have a psychiatrist look after me and was medicated for 6 months!

A few of the responses here represent another type of parenting recommendation that has been around since the beginning of time and still doesn't work: the idea that every misdeed has to be punished and, if you don't get the required result, punished harder the next time.

In my experience sometimes punishment works and sometimes another tack works
The aim is to educate the child to know how to behave in this world, not to terrorise them

YANBU
I had my 3 children in the early 80’s, no social media etc, I did the best I could & they’ve all grown up perfectly okay.

On the other side, I now have grandchildren & I would never advise & they haven’t asked, but I’ve had to just keep quiet on occasions & smile whilst inwardly been dumbstruck on some of the new parenting, making a rod for there own back comes to mind!

No we weren’t.

I don’t think this is a new thing because I teach a lot of 18-21 year olds at uni so Gen Z and many of them expect us to bend over backwards to cater to them. We aren’t allowed to ask some of them questions, have to actually sign a disclosure to say we won’t put them on the spot. I find they were raised to believe they can be whoever they want and do whatever makes them happy with zero thought for how this may affect those around them.

People are having fewer children

As a 60yo mum of 4 and grandma of 3 ages 11-17, who is putting these pressures on you?

I'm not convinced that knowing more is always useful. I mean I know my children would benefit from me always being calm and serene and never shouting no matter what happens. Knowing that doesn't equal actually being able to do that.

I'm a 'modern parent' and don't really recognise any of the stuff in the op apart from not leaving kids to cry which I agree with... Surely it's a good thing if kids are being 'left to cry' less?!

I don’t agree. I think because being a good parent is protective against depression. Feeling a bond, enjoying your baby, having time. All of these things are really beneficial to both.

What I think is hard now is that women are expected to still look pretty, hold down a job, maintain a lovely house, never use a dummy or school horror not breastfeed until they are 3, whilst doing baby sign classes and doing crafts. All whilst on the whole the fathers do very little.

That’s not parenting, that’s a nightmare! And you don’t need to go to any bloody classes with a baby. Or even dress them out of an instagram feed.

We should be championing motherhood, full on great challenging fun motherhood. Which is taking time off work, good sensible routines, little walks out, not having to worry about looking amazing, just bonding, getting sleep, paying a cleaner if you can, (I didn’t but god I’d have loved one), not bothering with social stuff for months unless it’s supportive.

And getting the father to really help!

I suspect pnd is on the rise as families and social expectations have changed. Retirement age has shot up so a lot of grandparents who may have other wise helped in the early years raising kids cannot do so. Modern technology and social media means people speak direct a lot less and there is a culture (within the UK at least) to say you are OK when you are not and for people to expect a response of you're OK when asked. The after birth support isn't great and maternity pay is pretty shoddy so puts financial pressure on but if both parents return to work child care costs are crippling

I think it's more down to personality and your social influences. I've not had PND with any of my dcs and I've found the early years to be happy and relaxed, and a period of my life when I've had the least expectations on me. Nobody really checks up with what you're doing before school age, except for the early midwife/HV visits and the checkups every few years. The rest of the time you just do what you want, and I'm not on social media and have never had mum friends so never had anyone judging what I did with mine.

Most of the things mentioned in the OP like taking dcs on fun days out were things that I chose to do without any expectations on me to do it, but I've never found it stressful and I do it because I like seeing them enjoy themselves.

I stayed well clear of NCT because of what friends said who went to their classes. They weren’t negative about NCT, but I realised it would never be for me.

What I realised fast with DS1 was how damaging the inability to bf can be - if you let it. learned quickly that I would not be in a healthy place if I beat myself up over it. Accept the baby doesn’t want to do it - and bottle feed with peace of mind.

And yes, babies will cry. The Velcro baby thing mystifies me - just put them down somewhere safe! I’d have gone mad if I had to carry the baby around all the time. What the hell??

I have a 23 & 15 year old - yes, they’ve survived- and thrived. Was I an earth mother? No. Does that worry me? No.

Someone mentioned up thread about parents in the past being ignorant - there are a lot of things we know now because of scientific research (back sleeping, car seats, not smoking near babies and small children) but in the past people had bigger families or lives nearer their wider family so had seen what life was like with a young baby.
There was also groups at local church halls to go with baby - there were often older women running it (those with school age children or retired) who would give a you a few minutes to drink a cup of tea and would chat to the little ones or read them a story. Heaven forbid if a stranger came within a light year of a child now.