To think modern parenting is contributing to PND etc?

[Naptrappedmummy]

Because I think it could be. We seem to expect so much of parents now compared to 30 years ago. Never let them cry alone, not even for a minute. If you do you’ll damage them beyond all repair. Keep them entertained 24/7 - fun days out, educational activities, cultural capital, enriching hobbies. Know who all their friends are, what they get up to every second of the day and the ins and outs of their entire life so you can micro manage it to prevent any upset (older children obviously). Intervene if their teacher tells them off or they fall out with a mate - never let them be put down or feel ‘unsupported’. Make sure they have their own room as sharing is unfair. Be in character 24/7, never raise your voice or show your anger/frustration, deal with everything serenely and with wisdom. Hug them if they smack you, don’t even show you are irritated. And so on. The expectations seem so high - you’re either the perfect mum or a shit one, nothing is ‘good enough’ any more.

It seems like such an overwhelming and unmanageable burden for mums that I’m not surprised so many have PND (including me) and mum burnout over the years.

AIBU?

I started reading a hypnobirthing book and abandoned it as soon as it said there was no such thing as experiencing an urge to push. According to hypnobirthing dogma, it doesn’t exist (and anyone who says it happened to them were either lying or brainwashed by traditional medical thinking). Because hypnobirthing says one can simply breathe their baby out with no pushing at all.

Anyway, the foetal ejection reflex is real so they can take their woo and shove it up their behinds, quite honestly.

I actually think the problem is that families aren’t as close as they used to be. There is little family support as often grandparents are still working and/or do not live close by.
There are also the issues of divorced grandparents trying to survive by themselves or are battling their own illnesses . My friends who have fared the best as parents have had close family support networks and are able to share the burden. My close friend struggled with PND but then her parents have retired and moved to her area. I’ve seen the pressure in her life disappearing and some real happiness emerge.

I think there's something in this, and also the decline in building and maintaining community, which could work as an alternative if family support isn't available for whatever reason.

The rise of online interactions (she says, on Mumsnet) won't be helping this particular issue either. The Internet and online connection are a godsend in many ways but there are downsides to losing real life interactions.

Who is making them feel that way? I had two c sections without judgement from anyone and never had any pressure to BF from anyone (I did do it for three months for each baby). No one made me feel like a failure. Is it some midwives and doctors who put this pressure on expectant mothers?

They used to say it takes a village to raise a child. I think in modern society, where people often move away from their families to work we have lost the village.

Mothers are also expected to work outside the home, keep a clean home, do all the cooking, bring children on outings etc and "have it all".

This expectation you must have it all must be causing some of the increase in PND.

I think PND was as prevalent in the past, just not spoken about.
some mothers feel compelled to keep babies even when they realise its a mistake. In the past, familial informal fostering/ adoption was more common.
Even on here, a mother saying she hates her screaming baby will be vilified. Yet. it's far more common than generally recognised. The obvious is that give baby to its dad/ grandparents, aunty isn't suggested.

Media portrayals of happy, functional family don't help and aren't a new thing. Even 30 odd years ago, images of family were 'chocolate box' and didn't reflect reality. Products and services rely on parental guilt.
You can't sell a holiday based on squabbling kids/ arguing family all hating it and each other. 😂

With PND having a strong link to hormones it's surely always existed even in very ideal family set ups.

If we know so much more about parenting than 30 years ago, why are children more unhappy than ever?

I do think parenting standards are a bit different, but the fact that we as mothers are also likely to be working longer hours, have unstable housing situations, less support of our families due to less people living near their family etc does add another level of pressure. Also yes there is definitely more pressure to have a perfect house, look great, eat well, social media gives us unrealistic expectations of parenting etc. It gets easier when you let go of all of that a bit.

I fail to see how you get that from this thread - there is nothing here suggesting children need more punishment!

Are they? Or are we just better at seeing and understanding it now, and do some people have a rose tinted view of their youth?

https://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/blogs/why-is-young-peoples-happiness-declining#:~:text=Our%20latest%20Good%20Childhood%20Report,they%20were%20a%20decade%20ago.

If you’ve never experienced the pressure you’ve had a sheltered life! I mean, good for you that you didn’t, honestly, but it’s so pervasive for most people.

Not just from doctors pushing vaginal births and trying to put women off c sections (I experienced that) it’s the posters in antenatal clinics, or the midwives who sneer about “artificial milk” (because, apparently, “formula” isn’t denigrating enough).

Add to that the peer pressure within NCT groups, baby groups and online. Everything feels so factional. I wanted to attend a local babywearing group to get sling advice for my firstborn, only to abandon the idea when I saw the website which pointed out that most of the mothers breastfed and used cloth nappies (it was irrelevant really, but back then it was so important to signal how crunchy you were) so I knew, just knew, that they would look down on me for doing neither.

The baby stage is very tribal. I remember people trying to tell me that formula guilt must be a myth because the majority of UK mums do formula feed. How is that even relevant when you are in a bubble where almost everyone is breastfeeding?

Hmm in some ways parenting is less pressured now (fathers are expected to share the load) although years ago there was less pressure to be perfect.

Either way, it was fucking hard then as it is now. Just in a different way.

I agree about the NCT group pressure.
No one wants to be the last to meet the milestone, no one wants to admit they're finding it hard, everyone's so blessed etc, when really and truthfully every first time mum is thinking Omg this is way harder than I thought!

Also the social media post 'likes' - people only like a positive picture, therefore you must never post anything negative etc.

If you’ve never experienced the pressure you’ve had a sheltered life!

Or people just have different experiences and/or don’t see certain things as being pressured to do them.

I certainly read a lot on here about mums tying themselves in knots trying to do things perfectly.
Baby wearing, co-sleeping, EBF into toddler years, baby-led weaning, never letting the baby cry, never going out without the baby, no one can hold the baby etc No wonder they're worn out!
I mixed fed my DC (25 years ago), put them to sleep and yes, at first, sometimes let them cry. Any offers of help were gratefully received (not that there were many) and shock horror - I sometimes went out without the baby! This all helped me to function and therefore to look after my DC. I was never one for martyrdom!

Oh and my babies were hungry. Solids from 3-4 months. They slept so much better thereafter and were happier in the daytime. We all were!

It's not straightforward
We have a 28 year old and a 13 year old. A lot of new parents are the same generation that are the first teens exposed to SM and don't know a life without it. They are quite naive about how much bollocks it all is.
My mum had us in the 1970s, it was tough. No recognition of PND, women's rights were shite. My dad (who is a nice bloke in many ways) never changed a single nappy, cooked a meal, did no cleaning etc. not once. There was little outside of drudgery, definitely no spa weekends away, or any time off the kids, women didjt ever go out to the pub, there were no restaurants etc to speak of.
It was easier in that we played out most days, rarely went on trips, played on our own a lot (or with my dad who was a fun dad). For kids it was probably a lot more fun than now. Lots of freedom. I really feel for them now all stuck in front of screens, not allowed to walk down the road by themselves aged 8 (let alone go exploring the defunct factory, or climb the trees behind the canal!). I think treatment of Mental Health was fucking shit in the old days and no one did anything about it, it wasn't spoken about. There was pressure to have kids well behaved, clean, ironed everything, good manners etc. I think the pressure in the 90s was a lot less than it is now though.

Hrmm, I don't think that's the whole picture OP. Society has always scrutinized parenting and in particular mothers. Fifty years ago it was have you got your figure back yet, is your house clean enough, are you being modern and efficient and bottle feeding or are you some kind of breastfeeding weirdo, do the other mums like you, has your kid got a strange name, what do you mean you need childcare don't you have a mother of your own, yes of course you have to take your baby everywhere you go but you're spoiling it; if you just ignore it it will shut the fuck up and stop annoying everyone else in the world, don't ask your husband to do anything or else he'll divorce you ... etc.

Any major life event has the potential to throw us off balance mentally. A major life event involving physical injury and wild hormone fluctuation especially so. Societal pressures and personal focus have an effect and these are always there. For some people they will exacerbate the situation enough that a person becomes distressed.

How arrogant! How rude!

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to just how parents in the past were ignorant and lackadaisical?

My offspring are now in their 40's. All have successful careers and are happy with their lives with their own families.

I did a good job of bringing up my family as did every other parent I knew.

It took until 2018 for my grandma to realise that the reason she had such a hard time with my auntie was because my auntie had silent reflux back in 1959. She probably had pnd from talking to her but 3 children - 2 15months a part and the 3rd was rarely our of hospital and passed away in childhood. Low mood was put down to "shit life syndrome". It was only when my cousins child had silent reflux so noticed the connection to what she experienced 60 years earlier
My mum had pnd in 1980 in part due to my sister severe projectile reflux and associated FTT.
I had severe pnd and psychosis. I was given a 50% chance of this happening due to a preexisting

Please tell me you were being sarcastic🤔

YANBU OP. I'm a child professional and I fell into the 'perfect parent' trap and actually gave myself PND because I just couldn't achieve the perfect parent-child dynamic. It was only 7 months in that the penny dropped and I thought 'fuck it' and binned the books. I now say to parents, "some theories/research suggest XYZ but we're all different so what works for me wouldn't work for you, so spend some time getting to know your baby and finding your own pattern..."

For me, that meant cosleeping, giving up nightly baths and I still feed my DC when when they're being slow- I'm yet to meet a teenager who'll sit there waiting for an adult to feed them! I don't care what people think of me as a parent- I'm now more relaxed and my DC are happy- that's all that matters.