To think modern parenting is contributing to PND etc?

[Naptrappedmummy]

Because I think it could be. We seem to expect so much of parents now compared to 30 years ago. Never let them cry alone, not even for a minute. If you do you’ll damage them beyond all repair. Keep them entertained 24/7 - fun days out, educational activities, cultural capital, enriching hobbies. Know who all their friends are, what they get up to every second of the day and the ins and outs of their entire life so you can micro manage it to prevent any upset (older children obviously). Intervene if their teacher tells them off or they fall out with a mate - never let them be put down or feel ‘unsupported’. Make sure they have their own room as sharing is unfair. Be in character 24/7, never raise your voice or show your anger/frustration, deal with everything serenely and with wisdom. Hug them if they smack you, don’t even show you are irritated. And so on. The expectations seem so high - you’re either the perfect mum or a shit one, nothing is ‘good enough’ any more.

It seems like such an overwhelming and unmanageable burden for mums that I’m not surprised so many have PND (including me) and mum burnout over the years.

AIBU?

Agree with this. On the one hand you don't want to terrify pregnant women, on the other, all those videos of perfect peaceful water and hypno births aren't helpful if things don't go as you hoped.

Social/environmental factors can play a part, but a lot of it is hormonal, and there may be an inherited aspect too.

Stress during pregnancy or in the post-natal period is not new, and depending on where you take your comparisons, is way lower now than during times of warfare, or the Great Depression

I don't think trying to say it's harder now is particularly helpful, as it misrepresents what previous generations went through and doesn't really help women having babies now.

What does help is better support services in the round, and an NHS under less pressure - providing both medical input for the more serious incidences and sign-posting (perhaps via HVs) of other community services (groups, peer-to-peer supporters)

I didn’t see the point of it tbh. Thought Father Christmas having a list was enough if using him as a tool to manage children’s behaviour around the season.

And my God the guilt tripping. Like this awful poem posted all over social media about the toddler feeling left out when a new baby comes along. This is only the first verse but you get the gist.

Yes it’s so extreme!!!!! They won’t just be a bit sad, they’ll suffer the ramifications for life and take the lesson as gospel forever until they end up in therapy at 50.

Probably.

I find it easier to just relax and take a fairly low key approach.

Kids are pretty resilient. If they have love, a steady home, good food and lots of fun they'll generally be ok - no need for all navel gazing and neuroses of modern life.

So true!

OMG 🤢 What a prime example of the toxic, guilt-trippy shit that we see on social media .

My personal (least) favourite is this one

Agree with this. It makes me laugh when people talk about the falling birthrate, has anyone ever considered that this approach to parenting is putting people off having bigger families?

As for that poem what actual use is it to a struggling sleep deprived mum of a baby and toddler with minimal support? What does heaping a ton of guilt on someone over a situation that can't be changed even achieve?

No: none of the things you've mentioned are applicable until well after the early parenthood period. How can educational days out be an issue for someone with a newborn?

I think PND has a biological component but exhaustion and lack of support from the other parent and family are also important factors. As a PP has mentioned I think birth trauma can also play a part and I do think the performative natural birth culture is a factor.

@Give0fecks it's already being passed on to the younger generation, one of my DC I can remember getting admonished by a teacher (and teacher telling me about my dcs 'behaviour') because they dared at aged 6/7 to tell another child that they didn't want to play with them because they were annoying them and apparently my DC would have been ok if only they had said the other child's behaviour was annoying them 🙄

the internet (I count FB groups and MN in this) means you can have women from all over the globe criticising your choices and parenting style.

Will Storr's Status Game discusses his view women tend to compete for status in the ways that they can. One of the most notable is out-parenting other women and MN is one of the better known jousting grounds for this. (I paraphrase and the book is about a lot more.)

women tend to compete for status in the ways that they can

Like all humans, then.

Social media has heightened this expectation of perfection 100 fold.

I had a complete meltdown at work recently as I just couldn’t cope with all the demands on me with the run up to Christmas. The thing that tipped me over the edge was my news feed being full of gingerbread houses and festive weekends, when I was dealing with absolute horror tantrums at home from my youngest. My weekends have been trying to catch up with work and chores and order and wrap presents, put up Christmas decorations write Christmas cards, attend school related concerts and church events etc etc.

On top of this I’ve been ill for months and most nights can’t sleep properly, so my mental health has completely unravelled. It’s not just the expectation to be a perfect mother it’s the expectation to be a perfect mother in a perfect relationship surrounded by a wonderful support system living in a beautiful, tastefully decorated house in a wonderful location with lots of days out and holidays.

For the woman to be in a well paid professional role, to be slim and well turned out with swishy hair and the children to have lots of extra curriculars and be well liked, sporty with lots of friends. For the weekends to be cultural affairs or packed full of friends and hobbies. I don’t know when anyone gets the life admin done or mows the lawn. I have s feeling these might be services farmed out or extended families step up.

For me I feel like 90% of things that need doing fall at my feet. I am never not needed. My kids can’t even play with toys without needing me to be involved. It’s absolutely exhausting. What I want is a cleaner, a gardener, a cook and a masseuse and then I think I’d be golden.

Its a well touted saying here, and on loads of parenting blogs/ IG accounts that “behaviour is communication”

Therefore there is an implication that if you can figure out ‘the message’ behind the behaviour/ what’s triggering it, then it should improve/ resolve. Therefore that all behaviour is something that can be ‘fixed’ if you parent well enough. That if there is bad behaviour, there is a need that isn’t being met. You’re not fulfilling your child somehow. Fill up their attention bucket!

That’s not true with toddlers - often they are just being dicks because they are 2. There is nothing more to it. They are black holes of attention - doesn’t matter how much you give them it’s never enough.

For goodness' sake! (The poem, not you OP.)

No, you won't be my baby forever, because my job as a parent is to bring you up to become (eventually) a responsible adult. Not to keep you a baby for ever.

Yes I do agree to a point.

Even just modern life set up doesn’t help. So many people move away from family for work etc and then have no hands on help when the baby arrives or childcare etc. You’re sent home from the hospital as soon as medically ready, where as years ago you’d spend 7-10 days being taught how to wash, dress and bath the baby etc. The passing down of knowledge and wisdom from mothers, aunts and grandmothers has gone and you spend them first few months in a blind panic using google to help with anything to do with the baby.

Anyone silly enough to expect all that of themself is setting themself up to fail. I think most modern mums have a pragmatic and sensible view of their dcs' childhood and set their own standards.

Of your list, I didn't even try to keep him entertained 24/7, know who all his friends are, what he get up to every second of the day or the ins and outs of his entire life so I can micro manage it to prevent any upset (older children obviously).

I've only intervened twice with teachers in a decade. He has his own room, but he's an only so that was inevitable.

Yet he is a happy, kind, hard working, well balanced teen, despite having a single mum and a mostly absent dad.

We communicate, he knows I have his back, I do my best for him and he knows I love him above all else. On a sample size of one, that seems to be enough.

exactly that! I had a c section by choice and the idiot health visitor asked me how I cam e to terms with it! Wtf!!

I think ideas about having siblings have changed completely. It used to be seen as sad/ not ideal for children to not have siblings. Now it feels it's going the other way - that if you have another child you're being unfair in taking attention away from your child/ children.

Personally I'd never have swapped my siblings for more attention from my parents. And I loved my parents, and my interaction with them was overwhelmingly positive. But my sibling relationships were and are of a different kind, and having more attention from my parents wouldn't have replaced that.

There's nothing wrong with only having one child, of course, but nor is there anything wrong with having more than one, even if that means you don't always jump to it immediately when one demands your attention!!

I remember when I had my second booking in the midwife seemed almost apologetic when I said I'd had an epidural with my first. I thought wft? It was a really positive thing to me.

Yanbu!

Mine are young adults and it's changed even since then. My sil takes her dc out every day to activities, never leaves them in a playpen at home to do jobs, no screens under 2 ...

The example i have of not trusting yourself is apps to tell you when to feed, waking you up even! Babies (health conditions aside) will alert you to when they need feeding, you don't need an app. I demand fed mine until 16 months, and never measured anything (breastfed) they grew up fine

I'm oh and the trend to be older I think doesn't help as we have more time to be dreaming of the perfect parenting experience. Honestly, my friends who had kids older are far more anxious than we were, I'm an instinct driven person I admit

I think SM and ‘#blessed’ has a lot to answer for here actually… I’d considered deleting my Instagram for some time and something was the final straw which prompted me to stop going on it: I was following a woman who preached the importance of being ‘real’ on SM but seemingly had the perfect newborn stage. She talked about the ‘bubble’ and was out and about while I felt like I wouldn’t even survive the first week. I really struggled coming to terms with how different my experience was and felt an inferior new mum. Our mums actually go to the same hobby club though and my mum later told me how horrendous a time she’s had, requiring her mum to move in for a couple of months. I know everyone has a different way of dealing with things and this may be faking it until you make it but it really opened my eyes to how smoke and mirrors it all is.