Page 15 | Trans women do not have periods.

zaazaazoo · 2023-12-19T18:12:55+00:00

According to period pants maker Modibodi, transwomen can have 'periods'. Periods which are just as valid apparently. Whilst I'm not going to suggest I know what hormone treatment tied to a trans woman, I can confidently say that no, they don't have periods. Periods involve blood. Trans women don't bleed. Modibodi seem to acknowledge that there is no bleeding involved I transwomen's 'periods' but bizarrely under a section on how to manage their periods, trans women should ^wear period pan^ts. For the life of all God's WHY???! Wtf would wear period pants if they didn't have to?

LdnAnna · 20/12/2023 00:03

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 19/12/2023 23:53

At 300 odd posts in, at least skim the thread or filter to just the OP's updates. It's not difficult. Discussion naturally moves on and to knob in with something that's been dealt with many times since the original OP is eye roll inducing.

Fair comment but it doesn’t justify the way some people speak to others on here.

I skimmed, clicked some links, but received a sarcy comment because I’d missed one in particular. Again, had the original post included the discussion point, there wouldn’t be an issue.

TeaAndTattoos · 20/12/2023 00:04

Good god I’m sick of all this shit now trans women don’t have periods. It’s getting beyond ridiculous now. YANBU op.

LdnAnna · 20/12/2023 00:10

Merrymouse · 19/12/2023 23:57

You don’t have to read every comment, but you should click on ‘OP posts:see all’

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Thank you. I myself wasn’t aware you could do this. Why can’t more people just do this? A helpful comment letting people who don’t use mumsnet often know how it works, without the patronising tone or an F bomb 😂.

Saggypants · 20/12/2023 00:17

A helpful comment letting people who don’t use mumsnet often know how it works, without the patronising tone or an F bomb

Except you said you're too busy to read the comments?

TBH you didn't deserve F bombs, at least your original response was polite unlike the many others who dropped in accusing people of being stupid/hysterical/ having no comprehension skills.

LdnAnna · 20/12/2023 00:33

Saggypants · 19/12/2023 23:56

The irony!

There wouldn't be literally hundreds of replies running over several pages if people had at least scanned the conversation, or even just the OP's posts, to see if things had evolved before posting.

Hot tip - any thread that's running into hundreds of replies is going to have some twists and turns along the way, and anything you're thinking of saying will have already been said.

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As mentioned above, I didn’t know I had the option to see just the posters comments. Shame most people jumped straight to patronising comments and swearing rather than sharing a useful tip to help.

Anyway, I literally read through pages, comments and links before adding my comment… but it seems I missed one in particular so therefore was told not to comment until I’d read the thread… despite having just read a lot of the thread…

wonders why I’m still here…

Ramalangadingdong · 20/12/2023 00:41

What goes on under the clothes of a trans woman of nomfb.

LdnAnna · 20/12/2023 00:44

Saggypants · 20/12/2023 00:17

A helpful comment letting people who don’t use mumsnet often know how it works, without the patronising tone or an F bomb

Except you said you're too busy to read the comments?

TBH you didn't deserve F bombs, at least your original response was polite unlike the many others who dropped in accusing people of being stupid/hysterical/ having no comprehension skills.

I assume you’re talking to me?

No, I didn’t have time to read every comment before replying to the original post. I skimmed.

I did however read the comments that I was mentioned in. So, yeah, a direct comment telling me how to filter out the incorrect info would have been more useful than essentially telling me to piss off 😂

Anyway, at 00.43 I must stop using this little free time I have to actually get some sleep!

Be kinder folks x ^^

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 20/12/2023 01:27

Barleysugar86 · 19/12/2023 22:45

So the only way I can make sense of this would be in the case of hermaphrodites, where both sex organs are present, who are more traditionally assigned 'male' due to having a penis but about 50% of hermaphrodites will also have a form of womb and periods. If they decided to transition to being female I could see this being their some transwomen who have wombs. It's all very niche though! Very weird page by the Company.

No one has two complete sets of working reproductive organs. That's not how disorders of sexual development work. Even in the case of Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome (diagram of typical case on left), there's no external vaginal opening and, importantly, no ovaries to release the female hormones that cause menstruation.

The closest to what you describe is caused by XX/XY (or XX/XXY, etc) mosaicism, leading to an ovary and a testis coexisting. Fertility in these cases is only recorded 11 times in medical history (content note: mentions clitoral mutilation of a baby) because of the conflicting hormones and the rest of the reproductive organs being atypical. The person does not develop full reproductive organs of both types, i.e. complete vas deferens and complete vagina, cervix, uterus, and fallopian tubes, because of the two different tissue types and two sets of gonadal hormones. (The difference between a clitoris and a penis is a mere matter of size and urethral routing.)

Also, usually babies with disorders of sexual development tend to be raised as girls because it's easier to cut a baby's big clitoris smaller (I consider this to be abusive mutilation) than to make it bigger, so it's very very unlikely that a person who menstruates would have been raised as a boy, even if that person was XX/XY mosaic.

tl;dr People with disorders of sexual development who have working uteruses and were raised as boys are so vanishingly rare that I'd be surprised if I needed two hands to count the number on the whole planet. These people aren't who Modibodi is targeting with this nonsense.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 20/12/2023 01:29

Ramalangadingdong · 20/12/2023 00:41

What goes on under the clothes of a trans woman of nomfb.

Again, that's not the issue that people are objecting to. We are objecting to Modibodi lying about biology to sell their products and coercing women into supporting the lie.

Transwoman don't have uteruses and cannot menstruate. They should not be told that some can. We should not be told that we have to support their belief that the side-effects of exogenous estrogen are "periods".

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 20/12/2023 01:41

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 20/12/2023 01:27

No one has two complete sets of working reproductive organs. That's not how disorders of sexual development work. Even in the case of Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome (diagram of typical case on left), there's no external vaginal opening and, importantly, no ovaries to release the female hormones that cause menstruation.

The closest to what you describe is caused by XX/XY (or XX/XXY, etc) mosaicism, leading to an ovary and a testis coexisting. Fertility in these cases is only recorded 11 times in medical history (content note: mentions clitoral mutilation of a baby) because of the conflicting hormones and the rest of the reproductive organs being atypical. The person does not develop full reproductive organs of both types, i.e. complete vas deferens and complete vagina, cervix, uterus, and fallopian tubes, because of the two different tissue types and two sets of gonadal hormones. (The difference between a clitoris and a penis is a mere matter of size and urethral routing.)

Also, usually babies with disorders of sexual development tend to be raised as girls because it's easier to cut a baby's big clitoris smaller (I consider this to be abusive mutilation) than to make it bigger, so it's very very unlikely that a person who menstruates would have been raised as a boy, even if that person was XX/XY mosaic.

tl;dr People with disorders of sexual development who have working uteruses and were raised as boys are so vanishingly rare that I'd be surprised if I needed two hands to count the number on the whole planet. These people aren't who Modibodi is targeting with this nonsense.

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I shouldn't type this late at night:

tl;dr People with disorders of sexual development who have working uteruses and were raised as boys are so vanishingly rare that I'd be surprised if I needed two hands to count the number on the whole planet. These people aren't who Modibodi is targeting with this nonsense.

Having a working, menstruating uterus excludes having a working, sperm-making testis. The levels of testosterone required for spermatogenesis block menstruation, as transmen on T know, plus internal testes tend to be too warm to make sperm. So anyone with an internal testis who is menstruating is reproductively female and cannot by definition be a transwoman. If they were believed to be boys earlier in life, that's because their doctors made a mistake.

Mutters123 · 20/12/2023 01:51

Utter bollocks! The world has gone mad!

Mummyoflittledragon · 20/12/2023 04:09

I am loving the number of times the same link has been posted. My dd has lots of modibodi pants. I won’t be buying again and will look for alternatives if required.

comfyoldcardi · 20/12/2023 05:57

Do they not teach GCSE biology at school any more?

sendinthefrownz · 20/12/2023 06:32

Alternatives to Modibodi products please? I won't be buying again.

HermioneWeasley · 20/12/2023 06:46

@sendinthefrownz ive got flowette and they don’t seem to have lost their grip on reality (yet)

MargotBamborough · 20/12/2023 07:43

CatMadam · 19/12/2023 19:22

… basically every reply in the thread is blatant transphobia. There is really no denying that.

The link describes the hormone changes trans woman go through which sound similar to those cis women have during periods. I know I had a week where i felt very ‘period-y’ without bleeding when I had the contraceptive implant. But I believe in being kind to trans women in general :)

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Do you believe in being kind to all women?

Or just the ones who were born with penises?

BlackPanther75 · 20/12/2023 07:44

You know what, as infuriating as this whole thing is, if the company had just focussed on the message of being inclusive to all people who want to wear their undies it would go unnoticed… what’s happened is they have got preachy and holier than thou… telling us about the ‘truth’ about ‘some trans women have periods’ etc etc .

MyHomeIsMyHappyPlace · 20/12/2023 07:49

100% this.

WomensRightsRenegade · 20/12/2023 07:55

Daftolive · 19/12/2023 18:38

It’s just so odd. Unless you’re worried you might be pregnant and you really don’t want to be, who actually wants to have a period? The bloating and mood changes, the mess and pain and inconvenience. It’s why contraception that stops periods is so popular.

Men who have the privilege of fetishising periods precisely because they never have and never will experience the reality

MargotBamborough · 20/12/2023 07:59

BrutusMcDogface · 19/12/2023 20:36

Sorry. I didn’t realise there were so many pages.

Having read the article, though, I still don’t see the big deal. Period pants are obviously completely superfluous but if trans women have hormonal swings/cycles etc and want to call it a period, then so be it.

Another poster upthread made a really valid point about how spreading medical misinformation can cause real harm.

Lots of women are woefully ill-informed about their own bodies. You see it on threads here all the time where it is clear that many women don't understand how ovulation works. There has also been a lot of discussion about how using phrases such as "people with cervixes" risks losing women who don't understand what a cervix is or where it is or whether they have one but would understand a very clear and simple statement that women need to have smear tests.

There may be girls and women reading the Modibodi website who see that page about trans women getting periods and consequently do not understand that a period is vaginal bleeding caused by the uterus shedding its lining two weeks after ovulation. So they feel a bit crampy or a bit moody from time to time and count that as having a period when actually they are not menstruating regularly, or all. Women need to be able to accurately answer the question, "When was your last period?" if their doctor asks them, and this sort of thing may confuse some of them. If you are not bleeding out if your vagina, it is not a period. Full stop.

Aside from the above, I find this appropriation of womanhood and hijacking of women's healthcare by biological males offensive and insulting. Now fair enough, you might think that's a me problem and I don't have the right not to be offended. But if we don't have the right to offend trans women by pointing out that they are male, surely they should be taking care not to offend us by pretending to be female. Why doesn't the kindness go both ways?

Channellingsophistication · 20/12/2023 08:09

@MargotBamborough I totally agree.

TheKeatingFive · 20/12/2023 08:10

but if trans women have hormonal swings/cycles etc and want to call it a period, then so be it.

Why though? The word has a clear medical meaning. Who exactly benefits from muddying the waters with inaccuracies? It sure isn't women.

runningpram · 20/12/2023 08:14

Last night my little girl asked about periods. I have to say I felt quite sad about the prospect of her going through this shit and dealing with pain, mess and inconvenience every month for 40ish years - even if it all goes ok for her.
In fact, I hope that we soon find a way of getting rid of periods all together - they are such a design flaw.

i find it so offensive that this company is peddling this bullshit - it is utterly dismissive of the pain, unpleasantness and the social and physical constraints periods place on women during the prime years of their lives.

Original poster

zaazaazoo · 20/12/2023 08:17

@IamfeelingSad yes I did actually have the link to post in my OP but didn't link it. Duh. I use a phone and I can't edit on it I don't think. Sorry. In any case so many people including me have linked. So people seriously not read any of a thread at all before posting?

OP posts:

Baldieheid · 20/12/2023 08:17

I think that your description of the pain, inconvenience and restrictions on our lives pretty much describes the fetish these men have......